DS 5 isn't bothered by being soiled

[SleepingStandingUp]

So da is not long 5, goes into yr1 Sept. He's been in reception at same school
.
Still not toilet trained.

Part of the issue I think is he doesn't tell me when he's gone, wee or poo, and will happily stay in a soiled nappy.

But it isn't just nappies. We was in bed waiting for DH to do stories and his drink leaked all over him, he didn't react. DH moved the duvet and asked why he hadn't said anything. DS said he didn't know it had happened. Similar has happened a few times over the years where say a drink of milk has slowly leaked over him and he's not reacted at all.

Occasionally he wets through his night nappy (he's in it borderline 12 hours so occasionally it's too much as he pees loads overnight), so he's waking in a wet bed in wet pjs. He'll come into us as normal, get in bed and not say anything until I realsie
He's under no concern he'll get in trouble for being well or dirty like this and I don't think "he's lazy" or "he's naughty" makes sense.

He is a bit precious about dirty hands and had sensory issues when younger about touching sand, paint etc. He still has some sensory issues around food so takes nothing "wet" like yoghurt or ice cream, but will tolerate dirty hands for beans etc as there's never any sauce.

Has anyone got any similar experiences or advice?

Were trying toilet training AGAIN but it'll just mean a lot of pee on the floor with two crawling babies thrown in so YAY!

Have you tried letting him go completely pantless during the day? Running round with a bare bottom? That's a good technique though obviously you have to watch him.

They can see it happening and react faster. I did it but we didn't have carpets so was easy.

Is he in nappies during the day? As pp suggested I'd use this summer to stay home (not so hard right now!) and let him be naked from the waist down. He's old enough to clean up an mess he makes on his own. I wouldn't use it to shame him but I wouldn't be doing it for him either. Lots of praise for any forward progress. You're going to have to start over and watch him like a hawk for as long as it takes.

Have you spoken to a GP or HV? It's really quite late for him not to signs of toilet readiness and I would want a check to make sure that the nerves going to the bladder at functioning correctly. This is done very quickly/easily b y touching certain areas of the lower vack.

@bluebadgehelp101

Have you spoken to a GP or HV? It's really quite late for him not to signs of toilet readiness and I would want a check to make sure that the nerves going to the bladder at functioning correctly. This is done very quickly/easily b y touching certain areas of the lower vack.

Hard to get in with a gp, they've always said we'll until he's 5... He was 5 during lockdown!! HV are fully aware, as obv as school who have been amazing. I've asked for a referral as I think he also has a physical issue in that area I want looking at, and he had numerous abdo and bowel surgeries between 0-18 months. However there's a wait to even get into the waiting list! I didn't know that about the back though so will have a research so I know what I'm asking gp and try to get in in Aug as he's shielding (DS not GP)

YES we've tried bare bottoms, atm that means peeing over where the babies are crawling or on their stuff, and watching him like a hawk to catch pee is well, 8 month old twins so yeah. We had some success with sending him hourly to the loo but he'd just be sat up there for 20 minutes until it came (fine) but then if you missed it he'd pee in the floor. He says it comes out too soon for him to know.

Anyone any experience Re the being happy to be in soiled nappies, soiled clothes, wet bed etc?

OP I would have thought that his numerous surgeries would have bumped him up the list a bit, do keep trying. My ds was exactly the same, he was diagnosed with ASD at 7. I really don't think a 5 year old who has no sense or control of urinating is within the normal range. His surgeries may be a bit factor though.

Meant to say he had quite severe sensory issues but wet nappies didn't faze him at all, and he told the continence nurse that he loved waking up set in the morning as it made the bed warm

Yeah his surgeries SHOULDN'T be an issue - diaphragm repair and bowel resection but it does make me query as I've nearby to query everything having a kid with an odd number of chromosomes 😂

He's currently bare bottomed. I guess even training him to go hourly would help school. He's in yr1 Sept and I'm desperate to crack it before then

Give Eric a ring www.eric.org.uk

They have continence nurses on the phone line and know EVERYTHING.

Thanks

Might it be worth looking into sensory processing disorder? My DS has it and although he didn't have the same toilet issues, he is very under responsive to sensory stimuli. In his case he's happy to wear soaking wet t-shirts or too-tight shoes etc. Ask for a referral to Occupational therapy if it rings any bells

My DS is the same age but not in school yet (Scotland). He isn't dry overnight at all, if anything he seems to pee more at night than during the day. He doesn't seem to notice if his nighttime nappy is wet or has leaked either.

My DS is developmentally 'normal' (sorry, you know what I mean) in most other ways.

However, my DS is pretty good on the toilet during the day. He occasionally has accidents but being honest, I think he is just lazy. He also gets very upset when this happens so is completely aware of it. He never has poo accidents.

So some of it might be normal, not all kids are night trained at this age, but your DS's reactions during the day are unusual in my opinion.

What do you mean about the chromosomes? Has he got a genetic condition? This might be the reason.

It sounds to me like you are expecting him to toilet train himself. This is why kids are so easily still in nappies until 5 or 6 these days. If you'd been using terries like I had to I guarantee he would have been toilet trained by now. the poor kid has no idea what to do. He's always had a nappy stuck on him.
Toilet training is HARD WORK. I started at two and a half with DS and he was bare bottomed all day.
I would offer DS the potty or toilet every single hour and he would get a reward everytime he went, a chocolate button say and loads of praise and the carpet or floor had to be cleaned a lot. He was completely toiley trained in 3 months.
You get them properly continent in the day then start on the night time training.
Nobody dhould still be in nappies at 5 unless they have a medical problem it's just poor parenting.

@madcatladyforever is the boy 's chromosome issue down to the OP's poor parenting too? I'm sure it has occurred to the OP to start toilet training before now, but thankfully you have informed all of us parents with children with additional needs that We are to blame.

@dustyphoenix

Might it be worth looking into sensory processing disorder? My DS has it and although he didn't have the same toilet issues, he is very under responsive to sensory stimuli. In his case he's happy to wear soaking wet t-shirts or too-tight shoes etc. Ask for a referral to Occupational therapy if it rings any bells

We had a session booked with it Re sensory issues and food, it was a zoom one during lockdown so make it harder to get at all the issues beyond this is how you make your kid way different foods. I might make an appt with gp and ask them to look into some other options as hospital referral is taking forever

My DSS is technically toilet trained. He was at around two but then by three and a half he was wetting himself multiple times a day.

He has no idea that he’s wet either. Or if he does, it just doesn’t bother him. If he wets himself, we ask if he is wet and he has to look down to check. I’m not sure if he’s just sort of numbed to it now or whether he is putting on a good show but he doesn’t seem aware of it!

@madcatladyforever

It sounds to me like you are expecting him to toilet train himself. This is why kids are so easily still in nappies until 5 or 6 these days. If you'd been using terries like I had to I guarantee he would have been toilet trained by now. the poor kid has no idea what to do. He's always had a nappy stuck on him. Toilet training is HARD WORK. I started at two and a half with DS and he was bare bottomed all day. I would offer DS the potty or toilet every single hour and he would get a reward everytime he went, a chocolate button say and loads of praise and the carpet or floor had to be cleaned a lot. He was completely toiley trained in 3 months. You get them properly continent in the day then start on the night time training. Nobody dhould still be in nappies at 5 unless they have a medical problem it's just poor parenting.

Yup, pointed out the loo when he was 2 and told him to sort his own life out now, I wasn't interested.

Of course he isn't expected to toiekt train himself, my qn is I think it's unusual for a 5 yo who is largely developmentally "normal" to not care if he's in a stinky poopey nappy or lying in a wet bed.

[quote bluebadgehelp101]@madcatladyforever is the boy 's chromosome issue down to the OP's poor parenting too? I'm sure it has occurred to the OP to start toilet training before now, but thankfully you have informed all of us parents with children with additional needs that We are to blame.[/quote]
Could be his chromosomes, it's hard to know. He's so rare, genetically, no one has a clue. The other physical issue seems to be linked to genetics so it's raising alarm bells. Combined with the surgeries.
He'd never told us he needs to loo or complained about dirty nappies (not even really crying etc) but then he was still pretty non verbal at 3 so although we tried, it was hard with limited communication.
Of course we've tried since. He'll go sit on the loo when I tell him, he gets a star, he knows the ultimate reward as well as short term one's, but if I ask him why he just peed on the floor he tells me it came out a suprise.
So do I decide he's a liar and lazy or thst he actually can't feel it until its coming out?

But yes, it's clearly cos I used disposables and then eclectic him to do it himself. I'm guessing his PEG feeding is because I expect him to cook his own dinner too

@MumandnotMum

My DSS is technically toilet trained. He was at around two but then by three and a half he was wetting himself multiple times a day.

He has no idea that he’s wet either. Or if he does, it just doesn’t bother him. If he wets himself, we ask if he is wet and he has to look down to check. I’m not sure if he’s just sort of numbed to it now or whether he is putting on a good show but he doesn’t seem aware of it!

Yeah DS will say no, then I'll ask again cos I can smell it and it's like he has to really think about it.

So DS just took himself to the loo. First time ever. He had a big drink then immediately went for a wee.

OP ignore matcatlady - for a start 3 months to actually toilet training proof their child just wasn’t developmentally ready when they tried!!! It shouldn’t take that long if they are.

I think there is potentially something more medical related for your DS. At 5 you’d think they would be aware of being wet or messing themselves. To have no awareness or worry about peeing over their little siblings toys etc isn’t whats is call a “normal” reaction at 5 either. It’s like he’s totally unaware. Please speak to your gp again and get an appointment. Your child is shielding so their must be other medical issues and prior bowel surgeries etc. I can’t believe it’s not all linked even if technically it’s not suppose to have impacted toilet training it clearly has (eg nerve damage potentially or something else).

You haven’t done anything wrong and couldn’t have done different. You’ve done your best. All children are different. My first trained at 2.5 in 2 weeks and rarely an accident afterward and by 3 no night wetting which is hormone linked anyway. My second I tried at same age and no success. Just didn’t care if wetting or didn’t realise. Back into nappies but continues sitting in potty. Tried again again 3 same thing. Finally at start of lockdown at 3.5 he’s cracked it and very much of his own doing. Pants only and onto toilet as didn’t like potty. He’s very very aware of has accident now and doesn’t like it at all. Says sorry and you can see he’s not happy peeing himself. That’s what I’d say is more normal after a few attempts. Generally they don’t want to pee themselves once they get a good grasp of it all. I think there is a medical reason for your son xx

Oh big cross post - that’s fantastic! Maybe he’s feeling the urge now. Loads praise and see what happens now.

Sorry for the unnetmumsy xx ! I think I was just so annoyed at cat on your behalf!!

Ps neither of my children spoke much at 3 at all. It’s a whole other parenting game which I don’t think many understand if they have good wee talkers. Trying to train a child who doesn’t speak at all isn’t as simple as training a good talker i don’t think.

"To have no awareness or worry about peeing over their little siblings toys etc isn’t whats is call a “normal” reaction at 5 either" sorry once it's out he's aware. So if he peed on their stuff etc he'd cry, same as when I sent him and he peed on the landing cos he wasn't quick enough, he cried because he wanted to do it right but there's no actual desire to do it in the loo just to do as I tell him iyswim.

Yeah @madcatladyforever 3 months is actually a long time! Mine took 2 weeks when she finally decided she was ready. But I waited til she was 3 1/2 because any attempt before that she wasn’t ready

Exactly this, dNeph works tell my sister I done poo, I need peepee. He'd hide behind the chair to poo in his badly. DNiece did similar. But if they can't talk, trying to ascertain if they even understand...
Doesnt bloody shut up now but still hard to know if he understands when I asking him about the to wee etc.

Twins are 7 months old and I'm hoping financially they'll be toilet trained ASAP 😂

Ignore madcatlady. I agree that a child who takes three months was probably not ready. My other DS was trained in three days and needed no chocolate button nonsense (sorry but I disagree with giving rewards like that for performing a bodily function, praise them of course but chocolate for doing a wee?) but I waited until he was ready at 3.

I had tried earlier with my older son and we've had more issues, but you live and learn.

That's great that he's taken himself, so he is capable of feeling the urge, that's really positive. Don't be too hard on yourself though, it does sound like the chromosome disorder could easily be at play.

Chromosomal issues are hugely linked to spina bifida. Has he been looked at for occult spina bifida?