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Original poster

Legal implications of taking a British child to another country

43 replies

askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:26

Asking this for a friend.
My friend is separating from her dp. They're not married and have one primary school aged dc. Parents are from European country and dc has dual nationality and they live in England.

My friend following the separation decided it would be best to move back home. Stbxp didn't agree or disagree, a bit non committal throughout. Now that the departure date is approaching there is a bit of animosity and my friend is worried he might do something to prevent her from going.

Does anyone know if there's anything he can legally do to prevent her?

Also he has asked to keep the dc's British passport and has it already. His reason was that she keeps one and he keeps tbe other. Is there anything he can do with the passport to stop them leaving? Obviously she can still go with the European passport.

Thanks so much in advance!

OP posts:
StoneColdBitch · 19/07/2020 11:28

If he has parental responsibility, then she needs his consent to move their child abroad and to take the child without consent would be child abduction. Your friend desperately needs legal advice. Tell her to speak to a solicitor tomorrow.

BereftOfInk · 19/07/2020 11:32

Your friend desperately needs legal advice

This.

Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:34

Thank you both

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Loveinatimeofcovid · 19/07/2020 11:36

If she doesn’t get permission from him he can have the child returned to Britain.

MalificentJones · 19/07/2020 11:36

Yes! Definitely he can stop her. And rightly so. You can’t just remove children from a parent.

That’s why you have to travel with a letter from the child’s other parent saying you have their permission and that’s just for a holiday.

My dh isn’t from the UK and it’s imperative you know the rules for the country you are in and the county you are living in. She needs to look them up.

People are always saying that they have travelled with their dc and not been asked a thing by immigration but usually that’s because they don’t notice the questions. They will say ‘are you excited about your holiday?’ to your dc or ‘leaving poor daddy behind this time are you?’ If your child says as mine once did ‘daddy hates England so mammy left him behind and now we are going to live with grandma’ then you will be questioned more officially.

We practiced what we said after that one! 😂

Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:43

Do you have to travel with a letter from the other parent? I never did. At what point would that even be checked? There's no passport control on this side. Only at the boarding gate

OP posts:
heartsonacake · 19/07/2020 11:44

Your friend would be abducting the child if she doesn’t have his permission.

Outofthevalley · 19/07/2020 11:44

I travel with two children as a single parent and we have been asked for documents before. I take a signed letter of permission from the other parent which has the address where we are going, the dates of travel and an authorisation for any emergency medical treatment, also listing his own name and telephone number. I also take birth certificates.

Sometimes we just get the innocuous questions about the holiday, but we have had an official scrutinise the documents on more than one occasion. However we have different sir names which flags it up.

Your friend cannot remove the child without the permission of the other parent, so yes, she needs consent to do so in writing. The only time you don’t need it is if you have a residency order and then you can leave for up to 28 days without the consent of the other parent (at least that is my memory - I asked the court for a residency order but they said that as residence was not contested, it was not in DC interests to have an order made 🤷🏻‍♀️, so I get a new letter from their dad every time).

Outofthevalley · 19/07/2020 11:45

*surnames

Outofthevalley · 19/07/2020 11:46

There is passport control coming into the U.K. - we get the same passport lady every time...

Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:46

Also just to clarify he hasn't said she can't go, she's just concerned in case he makes a last minute decision. And because the dc and mum would be travelling with the european passport there would be no issue when landing.

OP posts:
heartsonacake · 19/07/2020 11:46

He can also get their passport stopped so they can’t leave the country without his permission. It’s child abduction.

Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:47

@Outofthevalley

There is passport control coming into the U.K. - we get the same passport lady every time...
Coming into the UK yes, departing no.
OP posts:
Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:53

At which point at the airport have you been asked for the permission?

OP posts:
titchy · 19/07/2020 11:53

Passport control at the other end...

Yes he can stop her and yes she needs his permission. Or the permission of the courts. She needs to apply to the court for a specific issue order, unless she gets his written permission to permanently move abroad. Or risk them being forcibly returned to the uk assuming they're going to a Hague convention country.

Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:53

That was to Outofthevalley

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Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:56

They wouldn't be forced to come back to the uk. As both parents and child are from that European country British courts would defer to them. We've confirmed this

OP posts:
PMTRex · 19/07/2020 11:56

I have also been asked at passport control and immigration re my child's father and permission to take child abroad- this hashappened on arrival in the USA, Spain and France.

heartsonacake · 19/07/2020 11:57

The fact of the matter is she needs to ask him for written permission and if he won’t give it, she can’t legally go.

If she does go without his written permission, he can get their passports stopped (so when they are checked at the airport it will flag up that she’s not allowed to take them out of the country), and if it went further he can have them brought back to this country.

Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 11:59

@titchy

Passport control at the other end...

Yes he can stop her and yes she needs his permission. Or the permission of the courts. She needs to apply to the court for a specific issue order, unless she gets his written permission to permanently move abroad. Or risk them being forcibly returned to the uk assuming they're going to a Hague convention country.

Sorry not disputing what anyone is saying just trying to understand. If the dad is aware and never said he was against it surely she would be acting in good faith and wouldn't be considered abduction?

The concern is really in case he makes a last minute decision to make things hard for her

OP posts:
GreenTulips · 19/07/2020 12:00

I take it she has a one way ticket

heartsonacake · 19/07/2020 12:00

If the dad is aware and never said he was against it surely she would be acting in good faith and wouldn't be considered abduction?

No, that’s not correct. It’s not about “good faith”. Unless she gets written permission it is illegal and it is child abduction.

She needs to ask him for his written permission.

Outofthevalley · 19/07/2020 12:00

On arrival, you are right - entering the country. Both the overseas country and re-entering here, although it depends on the country (sometimes we are not asked but other times the documents have been carefully scrutinised). We carry a file with documents and have it ready to show.

I have only once been asked boarding a flight in the U.K., which was a domestic flight from Gatwick and I got a bit annoyed with the guy because there is no reason why he should have been questioning.

But legally, as others have said, if the dad has parental responsibility, your friend needs his permission to take the child to live overseas, and correctly so.

Original poster
askinfforfriend · 19/07/2020 12:01

@PMTRex

I have also been asked at passport control and immigration re my child's father and permission to take child abroad- this hashappened on arrival in the USA, Spain and France.
This wouldn't be an issue because they would be travelling with the European passports
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