Do you think it's possible to have autistic traits but not be autistic?

[Topsyturv]

DH has aspergers, he has an older son with autism and we have a son (3) with autism who is currently pre verbal, as in he only says numbers and colours - no meaningful communication. We also have a daughter (15 months) who appears to be neurotypical. I note this as I knew from very early on that DS was different.

For the past couple of months we've noticed traits in DD that we recognised in DS such as tip toeing, head shaking, some rigid movement and spinning in circles. Unless you knew the red flags you wouldn't think she was different in any way but I guess due to my anxiety over DS' struggles I'm on alert to watch out for things like this.

Aside those things she's the opposite to DS as in she is meeting all her milestones (clapping, waving and saying bye, pointing) all of which DS didn't do and still doesn't.

She's not a fussy eater and doesn't have any sensory issues as he does, she's very sociable.

Do you think it's possible for her to have these quirks and that be all they are?

It makes no difference to me if she does turn out to have autism as I will love her all the same, but obviously I would prefer she didn't have to struggle as DS does.

It absolutely is possible. Also bare in mind though that autism can present very differently in girls and the traits don't come out until much later in many cases. My 12 year old dd is diagnosed with ASD and met all of her milestones as a baby/toddler. The majority of her traits really only appeared at around age 8.

There are no traits seen in autistic people that aren't seen in the wider population, autism is more about the intensity and combination of particular 'human traits' more than the presence of specific 'autistic traits'.

Some of what's seen as 'autistic traits' are typical developmental stages but out of synch, eg echolalia and tip-toe walking are typical developmental stages, but may last longer, be more intense, or be delayed in an autistic person.

@tiredanddangerous I've seen that mentioned before yes, that ASD in girls manifests differently. Until now the only first hand experience I have of autism is in males, my DH DS and DSS. Would you mind sharing with me how it affects your DD? I'm very interested to know, in the event she does turn out to have it. I'm aware there is a strong genetic link traced back to DH.

@PolterGoose You raise a good point yes. Until recently I always thought that tip toe talking was an atypical thing for young toddlers to do, purely because DH drummed in to me to look out for these things.

It's interesting that your DD is only displaying physical indicators - do you think it is possible that your DD has picked up these traits by watching your DS?

Gritting my teeth in anticipation of the first person to come along and say that we're 'all somewhere on the autistic spectrum'. (For clarity: we're not.)

What can be problematic though (I think) is that testing for ASD involves a strong subjective element, made even more difficult by some people learning to mask their less socially acceptable traits as they get older.

It's entirely possible she has picked these things up from DS yes, they're things he does on a continuous basis day to day.

It would make sense to be fair, after all children mostly learn from copying

My dds issues are mostly sensory and social I would say. She doesn't get other people; doesn't understand why they do the things that they do. If someone is upset or angry she will have no idea why. That can make it quite hard to maintain friendships. She is a complete rule follower and doesn't understand why other people don't follow the rules, so can get annoyed or upset by people messing around at school etc. She finds change very difficult to cope with and finds it hard to adapt. She doesn't like crowds and noise and spends a lot of time at home wrapped in a blanket with the curtains closed to help her recover from her day. I've got an extensive list but those are the basics of it.

On the plus side she's very intelligent, well behaved, and very good at sport.

Thank you Tired, she sounds like a great kid

Your description sounds alot like DH. He just doesn't get people and struggles with reading emotions and understanding why people are sad/upset/whatever. He hates change, crowds, noisy events. He's also very intelligent and loved sport

autism can present very differently in girls and the traits don't come out until much later in many cases. My 12 year old dd is diagnosed with ASD and met all of her milestones as a baby/toddler*

Not just girls - my HF ASD son was the same. It was only when interactions with peers started getting more sophisticated that it became more obvious.

I was also going to say she may be mimicking her DB's behaviour. But I have very little understanding of autism in girls, as my experience is limited to DH and DS.

My sister's eldest two, 9yrs & 7yrs, have asperger and autism respectively. Her youngest 4yrs has been assessed as not being on the spectrum at all but does pick up on learned behaviors from his elder siblings.

@KettlesReady

* autism can present very differently in girls and the traits don't come out until much later in many cases. My 12 year old dd is diagnosed with ASD and met all of her milestones as a baby/toddler*

Not just girls - my HF ASD son was the same. It was only when interactions with peers started getting more sophisticated that it became more obvious.

Similar with DS1. There were some early signs like being a very intensely tantrummy toddler and a speech delay that needed some intervention, but it wasn't until we had a bad phase when he was 7 that I added up all the pieces together. I was astonished (and relieved) that the consultant was so decisive and that diagnosis was relatively straightforward as he masks well and school never sees it.

There are traits through the population which is why the "everyone is a bit autistic" comes out, but it is the intensity of a range of autistic behaviours and their impact on the individual that makes it autism, not a bit of sensory sensitivity or communication problems that you can work around.

Absolutely possible to have quirks and it be nothing further. I've attended multiple autism conferences in the past through my old job and the first one I attended I remember hearing various traits or signs and thought goodness so many of my family have particular traits but of course that doesnt mean they are autistic. I found it so interesting. Every person with autism has different traits as does every neuro typical person, it's all part of being human.

I second what somethingorother said, toddlers learn through play and copying and theres every chance she is just mimicking her brother's behaviour.

Thank you for the replies

Come to think of it I probably have traits myself. I can't stand loud noises, i hate going on the underground for that reason alone - and I'm neurotypical.

We embrace neurodiversity in our home and think DS is the best thing since sliced bread, I just hate watching him struggle (and he does quite alot)

Family trips out are often hard as he's overwhelmed by change and things he's not familiar with, a recent trip to the zoo went down like a lead balloon and he had a meltdown for the duration. I do wish he was able to enjoy things like other children and it saddens me because I worry he's missing out.

topsyturv but is he happy? Does he think he is missing out? Chances are he doesnt, possibly finds them overwhelming and is happiest at home with you. It's okay to feel how you're feeling.

I would say he's 40/60 happy to stressed.

He's unable to regulate his emotions or communicate his needs so that leads to alot of meltdowns. We've done all the suggestions, sensory corner, weighted blanket, sensory toys, calm time, keeping loud noise to a minimum - but he seems so easily triggered.

He can be aggressive and will bite punch and hit us, including his little sister. If something upsets him such as being told no you can't have another juice right now you've just had a big one, he will throw things at our heads.

He's in a special needs nursery now and I'm due to take him to SALT as soon as they recommence appointments so I'm hoping he will calm down as he better learns how to communicate his needs.

I spend a portion of every day having one on one time with him, encouraging him to talk / work with pecs - but he's not progressing much right now.

His paediatrican has mentioned medication but I'm not prepared to go down that route yet with him being so young. I'm hopeful that as he gets a bit older his communication and understanding will improve and he'll learn to regulate.

I'd be lying if I said it wasn't difficult but he's the Apple of my eye and I wouldn't change him, I just wouldn't wish his struggles on another child either.

I've had a similar conversation with my own GP. She tells me that psychiatry is a very precise branch of medicine and, in order for a diagnosis of any condition to be made, ALL the boxes have to be ticked. One unticked box and you aren't suffering from XYZ. I'm 99% certain I'm on the milder end of the scale but, because I have some unticked boxes, I haven't been diagnosed.

My first thoughts were she is probably copying her db and may just have her own quirks too. My dd 10 is hf asd and I wouldn't have thought about it when she was a baby. She met all her milestones but was a difficult baby but to some extent put that down to pot luck of babies. She is extremely sociable but not in an overbearing way, she has her quirks but no one would spot them on a regular basis.
It became more obvious from the age of 7 when she was falling behind her peers in emotional/social and academic development. She was diagnosed at aged 8 going on 9 and was being investigated since age six.

So I would say just watch and wait.

I'm autistic (realized as an adult!) and my 2 boys are I suspect, but have very different traits.

It's very different in girls so it's possible she is, but you can have traits but not be autistic.

It's a triad of impairment and you can have one or two areas of impairment but not be autistic as you don't meet all the criteria. Like you can have sensory processing issues but not be autistic as you don't meet the other areas.

I also hate the phrase we are all on the spectrum somewhere/we are all a bit autistic.

My oldest was on the threshold of a HFA diagnosis. They said he scored above in two of the three ‘triad of impairments’ and had traits in the third.
They gave him a diagnosis of ‘autistic traits’ and said many of his issues could be caused by his dyspraxia.
So yes, autistic traits is a thing. I’d go through the proper channels though, as you say she could be mimicking.

My dd 2 is diagnosed ASC. Her older sister is nt. At first glance she seems nt, she can make eye contact and she has a large vocabulary. She also eats very well.
However it becomes obvious that much of what she says doesn't make sense to anyone but close family. She uses her echolalia to communicate. Her eye contact and behaviour is often inappropriate. She is prone to bolting, has sensory issues especially with clothes. She has learning difficulties and
I suspect she has other issues including dyspraxia.
I knew very early on that she was different because of the way she looked at me while nursing. At the time I hadn't even knowingly had anything to do with asc or any other related condition for that matter.
Through all this though she is the most loving dd. She was diagnosed aged 3 and she is now 6.

I'm fascinated by how it manifests differently in girls!

If DD did have it then it would be a surprise to my family as she's the polar opposite a baby to what DS was. He was really unsettled and cried constantly whereas DD was always so quiet and content. Her eye contact is brilliant whereas DS would never look you in the face, although he's starting to now which is wonderful as he has the most beautiful eyes

DD has a few words that she says at her leisure, like juice, bye, no, shoes and door. She occasionally says mum and dad too. That's perfectly within the realms of normal development for 15 months isn't it?

She did once shout "Hadouken!" after being present whilst DSS was playing mortal combat and that was hilarious

ASD or NT, I think all we ever want is for our children to be happy isn't it? I wouldn't take the autism from DS if I had a choice, but I would take away the parts that make him so stressed and anxious.

Ah bolting.. Yes I know all about that, it's a regular occurrence with DS.

He still goes in the double buggy when we have to go anywhere further than the local shop because he has no concept of danger and will wriggle out of my hand and he'll be gone. I don't much like the fact he's still in the buggy so often because he just wants to explore and be a little boy, but it's incredibly difficult to keep him safe.

@Topsyturv, I'm sure my dd was still in a buggy at 3. When it comes to safety it's a needs must.
For my dd it's the unpredictable nature of her bolting that scares me most. I was a rubbish runner but I'm not now😉I've been trained by a master.