How much damage is this doing long term (alcohol related)

[JemimaPyjamas]

It’s not me, it’s a friend who is still in denial. She’s drinking at least two, and often 3, bottles of wine a day. Most days a week. She has been for at least 2 years, but probably more.
I’m amazed she can function at all. She claims she ‘knows she should cut down’ but also appears to be kidding herself she’s getting away with it. She’s not overweight although her face is puffy, and while unfit appears to think she’s reasonably healthy as she eats well.
I’m very concerned but can’t help until she wants to help herself. Any info / links would be great

www.drinkaware.co.uk/

Fucking hell! An average bottle of wine is 10 units, 2/3 bottles a day ... that’s at least 140 units a week. That’s TEN times the recommendation for women a week, maybe 15 if she drinks the third bottle every day.

Blimey that must also be over 1200 calories at least. Eventually your liver won't be able to process that, and even if she barely eats actual food the calories will add up.

I think anyone who "needs" a drink has a problem to some extent. I myself really like one gin and tonic in the bath each night... And I fully admit i feel a sense of disappointment if I don't have one. But for your friend to be consuming this much is a serious addiction.

Plus expense. If its two cheap bottles of wine plus sometimes a third call that £12 a day.. That's £4k a year!

Thanks for the replies. I am horrified but not surprised really, and also quite astounded about how she is still functioning.

I am, especially due to the current situation, drinking more than normal and I feel bad that mine is half a bottle most nights going up to a bottle occasionally on others. That, in my opinion, is bad and hence I am making a concerted effort to rein it in - and have managed, phew!

I know she was drinking this much when she was with her abusive ex, and then when they had a nasty custody battle and then when fighting over the house etc etc but I have had a dawning realisation that she would be on this much regardless. Its not a reaction to stress, it's a serious problem.

Thing is, she is now apparently stressed with work and that is the excuse, but it really means she has been on this amount (lets cut it down a lot to 'just' two) for years. If I mention this she trivialises it and claims she is just 'used to it' and seems to think she doesn't have an issue (bit like 40+ a day smokers talking about how their grandma lived to 90 and was also on 40+ a day...)

If she’s drinking this much, she needs to make sure she cuts down gradually rather than stopping cold turkey. It could be really dangerous.

It’s really hard to see a friend damaging themselves like this. Unfortunately, until she’s ready to quit there’s nothing much you can do to persuade her.

She's an alcoholic.

It's not remotely normal to drink that much irrespective of any kind of stressful event.

She could be doing untold damage to her liver plus there's the ever present danger that it gets to the point that she isn't functioning.

Does she drive?

I can't see that she could be under the limit in the mornings for example...?

That's what I think too. She doesn't seem to understand the consequences and just brushes it off as she claims she is fine. I suspect she isn't but I can't prise that out of her!

I agree with PP though - you can't 'fix' her.

The only person that can change her is herself and she won't do that until she reaches her own version of rock bottom.

So by all means draw her attention to the fact that she should be seriously concerned for her own mental and physical health but I wouldn't expect it to work TBH.

Alcoholism tends to be related to trauma or mental health issues of some kind...the alcoholism is the symptom, not the root cause.

You could gently suggest that she tackle the root cause(s) through therapy.

Again though, no amount of persuasion from you will make any difference if she doesn't want to.

@wheresmymojo I think she might drive the morning after, yes. That's another issue I've mentioned, and also looked at (likelihood of getting caught, what would happened if reported).

My laptop needs sorting so I cannot access the drinkaware site at the moment but I must agree that I think she must be doing a huge amount of damage, it just hasn't shown itself obviously yet.

@wheresmymojo she won't go for therapy, she doesn't think it's an issue. In fact, she'd probably laugh at the suggestion (and then go and drink a bottle of wine)

I have friend like this, perhaps more of 1-2 bottles most days. Late 50s now, her osteoporosis is horrific, constant stress fractures so is pretty much housebound. Liver is f*cked.

Sad, really sad.

Wow. Is that purely due to the booze?

Some people’s bodies hold up quite well. My alcoholic friend has all her levels checked every time she tries to kill herself, but she’s largely indestructible physically. Unfortunately she has destroyed every relationship she ever had (including child) and hops between minimum wage jobs until she gets sacked. The drink is more important to her though. 🤷‍♀️
Physically, she’s fine. Allegedly.

@JemimaPyjamas very likely although obviously menopause wouldn't have helped. Also too busy sitting at home drinking rather than doing any weight bearing exercise etc.

Gawd, it's all so messy isn't it! But I am useless really, until she sees it as the issue it is (or will be)

That level of drinking will absolutely have long term consequences. The problem with livers is that they cope and cope and cope - until they don't. You can go from symptom free to death's door very quickly. In addition alcohol contributes to osteoporosis, ruins your libido, causes heart disease and cancer - it's a poison. My husband died from alcohol-related heart disease. My mother drank herself into alcohol-related dementia. I do drink myself, very moderately and well within the guidelines, but you need to be aware of what you're doing.

Your friend won't change until she realises she has a problem; there's nothing you can do here but protect yourself. Don't get drawn in and distance yourself emotionally if you can.

@pointythings it sounds like you know what you are talking about. I think she is lulled into a false sense of security as she thinks she is okay, but as you say the liver can cope and cope and then suddenly give in - its not looking good

JemimaPyjamas when I realised my late husband was an alcoholic, I looked up the health risks. One of the things I futilely did was try and educate him on what he was doing to himself. It did bugger all. Same with my mum - after my dad died, she basically committed slow suicide by booze. She knew what she was doing and it was horrendous. I feel for you - it is incredibly hard to stand by and watch someone self-destruct. If you find this tough I would strongly recommend getting some support for you. Al-Anon is for the friends and relatives of alcoholics. Other groups exist too - I still attend one regularly almost 2 years after my husband died, because we are all still feeling the effects. Having support from people who know what it's like it incredibly powerful and I would recommend you do this for yourself.

My BIL is an alcoholic. He no longer drinks, but he isn’t recovering. He won’t ever recover. He has destroyed 80% of his liver which can no longer process the toxins in his body. As a result it has caused permanent brain damage and he now has dementia. His body doesn’t work properly, he soils himself all the time and he can barely talk or walk. He is now in a care home as SIL can’t cope with him any more.

He is now in the late stages of heart failure and isn't expected to live very long now.

OP please don't waste your energy trying to persuade an alcoholic to stop drinking, you will drive yourself crazy. Previous posts have mentioned Al Anon and similar, they weren't my bag but some folk find them a great support so try it out if you can.

You mentioned a custody battle, does your friend have children? If so please involve social services. As an adult child of an alcoholic, I live with the consequences every day. My confidence and self worth were badly erroded because I believed my parent drank because of me. I was often threatened with violence, withdrawal of emotional support and basics like food and clean clothes. No one saw this and as a result I had a very sad childhood. If there are children involved please get help for them.

My mum died of liver cancer from drinking like this.

A friend of mine was drinking like this a few years ago, yet still holding down a job etc, so she insisted everything was fine. She’s dead now from liver failure. Started off a bit puffy and went downhill frighteningly quickly.

@40somethingJBJ that’s scary. My friend sounds like this, in the sense that she’s holding down a job and, on the surface, seemingly ok. If I didn’t know how much I wouldn’t guess, if that makes sense! I think she must be in a permanent state of drunkenness that she’s managing to hide as that amount must also take a while to get out your system.
On the surface none of it comes across as severe as it is. I would have previously assumed that drinking that much would be obvious, but it looks like I’m wrong