Is there really going to be a depression?

[BrexitBingoGenerator]

If so, what will it be like?
I was a child in the central belt of Scotland during the early 80s and it was grim- I remember going past the closed-down Leyland plant at bathgate and the huge car parks lying empty. But what would a depression look and feel like in 2020?

[quote Headshoulderskneesandtoes22]@EnlightenedOwl.....yep, sure was with an average Covid death age of 80-84. We’ve shut the whole bloody country down for baby boomers. The ones who survive will go on living in their massive mortgage free houses, getting their triple locked pensions and generally taking more than they’ve ever given to society.[/quote]
This is absolutely true

Hey ho at least we protected the nhs.

@RosieLemonade

Hey ho at least we protected the nhs.

Which in turn rewarded the public by cancelling treatment and making any available treatment impossible to access with ridiculous self isolation regulations

The people who died were disproportionately from poorer backgrounds, not the ones with ‘massive mortgage free houses’ etc.

Died of it or with it? And most were elderly anyway so would have died of something eventually.

We’ve shut the whole bloody country down for baby boomers. The ones who survive will go on living in their massive mortgage free houses, getting their triple locked pensions and generally taking more than they’ve ever given to society.

I'm a baby boomer. I'm unemployed, have little hope of finding a job at my age, struggle to exist on a JSA and have rented for the last 17 years as I can't afford to buy. Don't tar everyone with the same brush.

It was said, at the start of the lockdown, that we would inevitably go into a recession. I had expected to see house prices crashing by now but they haven’t in my area, and houses are selling.
I wonder if this recession will start to show itself when furlough ends , if a lot more redundancies will happen.
We could be in for a crappy Xmas after a crap year.

And most were elderly anyway so would have died of something eventually.

I can’t believe you wrote that.

I blame the banks creating money out of thin air getting us in to deeper debt

We shut the country down for people, human beings?

The elderly are the ones Who brought you up and wiped your arse and invented the cures for cancer that you will catch in later years . Who paid proportionately much more in taxes in their youth for the services you now value

But actually we shut it down for the NHS who, even if you left the over 70's , the disabled and the vulnerable ( does that include BAME in the "I'm alright jack" mentality ? ) in the street to die , would likely be overwhelmed by this virus running uncontrolled through the population

Or do you have some magic wand? You would just lock all those people up in a prison for the rest of their lives so you could live unhindered? Until it was your turn to exit yourself from life into the death row prison ? Or are you hoping for a vaccine before its your turn?

@feetfreckles

We shut the country down for people, human beings?

The elderly are the ones Who brought you up and wiped your arse and invented the cures for cancer that you will catch in later years . Who paid proportionately much more in taxes in their youth for the services you now value

But actually we shut it down for the NHS who, even if you left the over 70's , the disabled and the vulnerable ( does that include BAME in the "I'm alright jack" mentality ? ) in the street to die , would likely be overwhelmed by this virus running uncontrolled through the population

Or do you have some magic wand? You would just lock all those people up in a prison for the rest of their lives so you could live unhindered? Until it was your turn to exit yourself from life into the death row prison ? Or are you hoping for a vaccine before its your turn?

1970s style parenting. Yes, it was great

@SandysMam

I think a depression in 2020 would be even harder for people then earlier times, largely because of social media and the footballers wives lives many aspire to, even on low incomes. Mentally, this will have a huge impact on people and cause a host of problems beyond the hunger. Instagram will continue to show people a lavish lifestyle while they are struggling to pay the basics. It’s a perfect storm for mental health problems.

Really agree with this

@FredaFrogspawn

And most were elderly anyway so would have died of something eventually.

I can’t believe you wrote that.

It's a fact?

@FredaFrogspawn

And most were elderly anyway so would have died of something eventually.

I can’t believe you wrote that.

I’m not shocked, I was told by a poster on a covid thread that as I have type one diabetes and a poorly functioning spleen that I would probably die in the next 12 months anyway so lockdown was pointless.

Actually, death rates go down in recessions. Less car travel, fewer risky activities, less alcohol consumption etc. Not saying it's a good thing, and the quality of life can be shite, but people keep saying recession leads to deaths when the evidence doesn't support it. Recessions are also better for the environment.

However there would be grinding poverty, poorer health, mental health issues, domestic violence, political unrest and a host of other terrible consequences. I truly hope we can avoid second waves, and a depression, whether via a vaccine, a mutation or dumb luck.

I see the NHS bashing has started.

We've had ten years of underfunding the NHS.

The GOVERNMENT are responsible, the NHS is funded and directed by them.

If the GOVERNMENT had provided the funds for covid operations on top of regular operations, it still would have been impossible, because due to the GOVERNMENT we have too few nurses and too few doctors.

@Stuckforthefourthtime

Actually, death rates go down in recessions. Less car travel, fewer risky activities, less alcohol consumption etc. Not saying it's a good thing, and the quality of life can be shite, but people keep saying recession leads to deaths when the evidence doesn't support it. Recessions are also better for the environment.

However there would be grinding poverty, poorer health, mental health issues, domestic violence, political unrest and a host of other terrible consequences. I truly hope we can avoid second waves, and a depression, whether via a vaccine, a mutation or dumb luck.

But life expectancy drops too, so people may not have accidents within the recession years, but they lose years of life, and often suffer worse health throughout their lives.

And the old people bashing.

@tellmewhentheLangshiplandscoz

Yes quite.

@RosieLemonade

Hey ho at least we protected the nhs.

The GOVERNMENT chose this approach because if they hadn't, there would have been more deaths.

Do you wish there had been more deaths

What this thread tells us is that there will be a lot of BLAME and SOCIAL DIVISION.

Note, none of the aggro is actually directed at the virus - the thing that is responsible. All of the aggro is directed against government/elderly/NHS/furloughed/the not-furloughed and so on.

It will be miserable for many.

Agree with PPs who have said an output of recession or a more severe depression will be scrapping, blaming, arguing (at best!) as this thread has already shown.

I think we will see huge business failure and a return to double digit unemployment rates. Taxation will increase and hit the middle classes (the squeezed middle) hard, creating resentment towards those ‘whose lifestyles are being funded’.

One thing I do hope is that it will be the end of the vile ‘influencer’ consumer show off culture. Otherwise I’m feeling quite pessimistic.

@labyrinthloafer actually nope, recession has historically increased life expectancy. Again, this does not mean quality of life. But fewer deaths will lead to overall increased expectancy. Even the Great Depression in the 30s had this effect. We should try to avoid a recession, but we also need to use this moment to reassess whether economic growth actually delivers the improvements we want.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22533416/

I just hope my mother survives the nervous breakdown the lockdown induced, which has landed her in an inpatient facility. 🤞

[quote Stuckforthefourthtime]@labyrinthloafer actually nope, recession has historically increased life expectancy. Again, this does not mean quality of life. But fewer deaths will lead to overall increased expectancy. Even the Great Depression in the 30s had this effect. We should try to avoid a recession, but we also need to use this moment to reassess whether economic growth actually delivers the improvements we want.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/22533416/[/quote]
I shall read it.

I feel like our country is in a shit place in terms of inequality/poverty/health, and it is going to get more shit?

Does that article suggest that things won't be more shit? I hope you are right. I'm basically pessimistic about policy choices likely to be made.