Can they do this?

[phatsandsmall]

I have Name changed as this post put together with others previously Could potentially out me if people who know me see it.

Its work related and I have posted in Chat for traffic. However happy for it to be moved if it's felt necessary.

I have been on furlough since beginning of lockdown . No sign of going back yet- company has many businesses and is re opening gradually. We don't have a set date for ours to re open yet and it's likely to be some time.

Company have emailed all staff on furlough to let them know that they will automatically take a week off their holiday entitlement in July and if we are still furloughed in August the same again that month. HOWEVER they are not paying us a full weeks wages for this on top of furlough but topping up the 80% furlough pay to 100% for those weeks!

Have discussed this with other work colleagues on our zoom catch up and all agree we don't feel it's right but we don't really have a senior staff member to query it as before we went on lock down we had a temporary manager who was covering and to be honest he is not the most approachable person and it would be awkward to make contact and he is good at towing the company line and likely fob us off anyway!

Does anyone here know if they are allowed to do this?

Sorry for the long post and thank you in advance.

I dont understand why you think you would get furlough pay plus full wages. You will get 100% wages rather than 80%. Why would you expect 180% of wages?

Agree with the above - why would you be paid practically double for not working? If it's holiday entitlement it should just be paid at 100% of salary as it would be if you were at work.

Our doorknob have said if we take holiday during furlough we will be paid 100% rather than the 80% we have been getting.
I assume they will be unfurlougjing is for the week of holiday. They have been unfurloughinb the odd member if staff for a week at a time to help with certain projects

But I agree with others you wouldn’t get furlough AND a full weeks pay. However they can’t just pay you 80% you must be paid 100% for any holiday taken but definitely not 180%!!!!

That’s the requirement - they’re doing what they’re supposed to

So they're essentially unfurloughing you for that week and paying you at your usual rate for annual leave. Presumably so that when you do go back to work you don't all just disappear off on holiday.

I am far from expert but if you're on annual leave surely you're not furloughed and they won't be claiming from the government for those weeks? Might be worth seeing if the gov website has detailed furlough t&cs.

www.gov.uk/guidance/holiday-entitlement-and-pay-during-coronavirus-covid-19

They pay you your normal rate of pay. They claim 80% back. You don't get extra pay above what you would normally get paid

But technically the government are paying 80% of our holiday pay and thats not right! We should be taken off furlough for the week and paid 100% by the company. Or of they are instructing us to take the holiday for that week with no option "buying it off us" I am pretty sure the furlough scheme isn't to pay 80% of peoples holiday entitlement so companies get out of doing so.

What they're doing is correct. You get paid your normal wage for a weeks annual leave. They can claim 80% of this but have to top up to 100% as its holiday.

Yes what they are doing sounds absolutely correct and in line with the scheme

Furloughed workers

An employer should not automatically pay a worker on holiday the rate of pay that they are receiving while on furlough, unless the employer has agreed to not reduce the worker’s pay while on furlough.

If a worker on furlough takes annual leave, an employer must calculate and pay the correct holiday pay in accordance with current legislation - see thestandard guidance. Where this calculated rate is above the pay the worker receives while on furlough, the employer must pay the difference. However, as taking holiday does not break the furlough period, the employer can continue to claim the 80% grant from the government to cover most of the cost of holiday pay.

The company are doing it the right way.

I know of others who are topping staff up to 100% but taking away a day of leave for each week that the person is on furlough for.

So 3 weeks of furlough would equal 3 days of annual leave.

you are getting paid 100% though. You are still technically on furlough so the employer can claim 80% back

Thanks everyone - still don't agree furlough should pay for people's holiday entitlement and feel like companies are taking advantage of that to force holiday on to their staff.

I didn't choose to be off right now and hardly having a Jolly when no one can go anywhere and do anything or see anyone either! And now later in the year when it might be possible to do these things I won't have the holiday entitlement to do so.

Also a few people had saved a week holiday for Christmas to make sure they were paid for it during our closure and now they won't have this allowance to take - very unfair. This is automatically authorised when requested so many hadn't already processed it before lock down. As it was only march and holiday is renewed January: (

I see your point re wanting to take leave at another time, but presumably once it starts operating again the company won't want all its employees taking a load of leave at once.

Most people take a week or two April-August so from a business point of view, enforcing some leave during furlough doesn't seem too unreasonable in the circumstances.

Thanks. I do "get it" just seems unfair. My partner works in the hospital and has done so many hours I have barely seen him or spent quality time with him. We were looking forward to having a break together later in the year and now that won't be happening unless I can score some time unpaid- which very likely won't be happening lets face it.

I genuinely can't believe you think this is unfair! Would you prefer to have been made redundant? God the entitlement of some people.
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My work are doing this, and I'm fine with it.

I would check your contract as well. I am having 2 weeks like this and if my company are only paying the 20% and the other 80% is furlough that doesn't bother me - I know they will have lost money during this time so I would rather them do that and I have a job to go back to. Lots of companies are doing it this way. It's a standard part of my contract that the company can force me to take holiday so this can be done at any point, not just during furlough. That's why I've said to check your contract (although I'm not sure if there is some new ruling because of furlough which means it doesn't need to be in there anyway?! 🤷🏼‍♀️)

Unless you've already used 3.5 weeks of annual leave in jan, feb march then you'll still have this to take when you return to work though surely?

I think that given you say you won’t be back to work for some time, it sounds like your industry has been hit pretty badly by Covid. If I were you I wouldn’t be airing my frustrations about holiday pay now, when it sounds like jobs may be on the line.

I have had to agree to things I would really rather not regarding annual leave. But the business is starting the process of major redundancies and I am not about to be the difficult employee now.

There has been a lot of sacrifice made by a lot of people during this time, and your frustrations seem very minor.

@TARSCOUT

I genuinely can't believe you think this is unfair! Would you prefer to have been made redundant? God the entitlement of some people. .

Actually I would have preferred not to have been furloughed at all especially when our line of business was allowed to stay open during lock down and has caused many problems for people (and by that I don't just mean the staff) by closing just so the company doesn't have to pay its staff. We wanted to work through all of this- we fought and argued to. Furlough should only have been made available to businesses and companies forced to close due to lockdown not made a choice so greedy CEOs can not have to pay their staff for almost half the year!! Then use that benefit to cover holiday costs too!

@QforCucumber

Unless you've already used 3.5 weeks of annual leave in jan, feb march then you'll still have this to take when you return to work though surely?

For someone in your example

One week will be automatically taken July

One week will automatically be taken August

One week saved to make sure christmas shut down is paid for.

That still leaves 2.6 weeks of holiday still to be taken