Should I stop breastfeeding?

[WheresMyMilk]

My little girl is 8 days old, I’ve been trying breastfeed her with not much success! She had a bad tongue tie (My poor nipples!) which we have now had repaired but she lost a lot of weight so the midwife told us to supplement with formula, which I have done. I’ve also expressed a lot to try to keep supply up.

Now though however many times I put her on my breast to feed and however long for, she is still starving afterwards and won’t settle. I had been trying to stop supplementing by feeding for longer (midwife ok’d this as she has gained weight), but in desperation I gave her the extra formula and she immediately settled and went to sleep.

Supply was a big issue with my first daughter too and I’m wondering if I just have a rubbish supply

I am not against formula feeding at all, but my personal preference is to breastfeed if possible. But I’m wondering whether actually it just isn’t going to work out. Once my husband goes back to work in a few days and I’m at home with a 2 year old and a newborn I won’t be able to sit and express for half an hour after every feed like I do now.

If anyone has any advice I’d be really grateful! Don’t want to stop prematurely but equally don’t want to keep fighting a losing battle.

Could you continue to combination feed? I combination fed for similar reasons - DS also had tongue tie and by the time it was fixed my supply never caught up again. I continued to combination feed and express, it worked very well for us.

Ahh I feel you - I've had BFing struggles too and it's all exacerbated by lockdown isn't it. I suppose it depends how much you want to continue,I've made it to 7 weeks and so far have encountered tongue tie, thrush and mastitis.
My baby has fed for hours too, the infant feeding team assure me it's totally normal (although all my friends have had very fast feeders!). Do you think your little girl could be cluster feeding? I have no supply issues, but before I knew about cluster feeding I was worried I wasn't making enough milk. Babies who are FF will often settle straight after a bottle as formula doesn't digest as quickly as breast milknso they sta fuller for longer. Cluster feeding is really common in the first few weeks and then again as they go through growth spurts. It does make you feel like you're not making enough, but if she's producing wet nappies and putting on weight then you are. Cluster feeding in the early days is also when baby works to get your supply established, but obviously that doesn't apply when FFing which again could be why she went to sleep straight after.

Do you have an infant feeding team you could contact through your hospital or health visiting service? Mine have been so knowledgeable and I don't think I'd still be BFing if it wasn't for their support. Since they are specialist they're really well placed to advise on your specific situation. A few of them will also see you in person if baby's weight is low, or over Zoom otherwise.

Also, are you still experiencing pain when she latches? It's taken my DS weeks to figure out how to latch properly, even with his TT being snipped at 2 weeks. It could be that your DD is still learning the whole process, and that because of the TT she's possibly not as efficient a feeder as she could be (and not necessarily a supply issue). the infant feeding team should be able to help with that too.

Ok, so first of all, it sounds like you've had a really tough go of it so far and you've done really well! No judgement at all for switching to formula; you must do what works for you.
However, if you are keen to continue breastfeeding, here is my advice:

• being unsettled is NOT a sign of poor supply or hunger. The only indicators of supply are weight gain and dirty/wet nappies. If there's plenty coming out then there is plenty going in. How is weight gain currently?
• to increase supply, the best thing to do is feed feed feed feed feed. If you feel like a milk machine, you're doing it right. Baby should be at the breast regularly. Lots of skin to skin. The baby should decide when the feed is over - let them come off naturally and if they decide they want to go back on straight away so be it. That's called cluster feeding and is what stimulates the breast to make enough milk. It won't always be like this - supply is generally established around 6 weeks and the cluster feeding eases off, although does happen again during growth spurts.
• offer both sides. You might find baby feeds from each and then goes back to the first: this is normal. It's very unlikely there is no milk (unless there are nappy output issues in which case, yes, a supply issue could well be the problem). The flow can just slow down which can be frustrating for the baby. You can help by squeezing the breast (you can YouTube breast compressions to see how to do this) and it will help. Letting the baby stay on the breast for as long as they like, even if not actively feeding, helps too - eventually they trigger another let down and get that fast flow again.
• you need to drink lots of fluids, eat well and rest when you can. Don't skip meals and, if cluster feeding, eat a snack (or several) to keep you going.
• your baby will feed regularly. This is normal. Breastmilk is broken down quickly and therefore is needed more often. Formula is harder for the baby to digest which is why they can go longer between feeds and often conk out after a bottle! You may feed hourly on some days. Other days, maybe every 3 hours. Gradually, feeds space out but don't expect that for a while. You can't overfeed a breastfed baby. You must feed on demand.

Good luck and congratulations on your baby!

The first couple of weeks are so so hard.. I think my son was literally attached to me all day every day. But it's just their way of getting your supply to where they need it to be. Can you persevere for a few more days and see if the cluster feeding eases when your husband goes back to work? I only have one so I don't know what it's like juggling a toddler too but we are now 7 months in and it's far easier/less time consuming than my friends who bottle feed.

Try and remember that your body and your baby do know what they're doing when it comes to supply. I cried many times in the early days thinking I was empty or not making enough because the cluster feeding was so relentless but it was completely normal and there was plenty of milk (in fact I actually went on to donate a batch to the milk bank) xx

To echo what others have said - the cluster feeding is completely normal and is your baby's way of establishing supply. Just keep her on the breast as much as possible for a few weeks. With DC2 I just parked myself on the floor of DC1's room with DC2 in my arms and kept feeding while playing with DC1.

I think baby is on the breast all the time to up your supply, completely normal at this early stage. Are you pumping because she falls asleep? If she's still awake ditch the pump and just latch DD on, she's far more effective than the pump.
Babies will guzzle the formula regardless of whether they're hungry or not as there's no effort required so they just take it.
Whilst your DH is home, set yourself up somewhere comfortable and just feed baby whilst DH cares for everything else.
The early days are so tough but it is possible to come back from having to supplement with formula to go EBF if you want. In this weather make sure you are well hydrated. If you continue it will click into place. DD3 had a 100% tongue tie, snipped at 3 months old I think so I'v been there with the blessing nipples.

I would try for another week or so and see if there is any improvement, then go from there.

Thank you everyone for taking the time to give me advice. That’s actually really helpful to know that her being hungry isn’t a supply issue! She is filling plenty of nappies so maybe I’ll stick at it longer, she is being weighed again next week.

I get basically nothing when I express, is that a problem?

I will consider combifeeding so she still gets some anti-bodies if I can’t return to ebf, thanks pinkblueberry

dustyphoenix it is still a bit painful and I’m not sure if it’s because the old cracks and sores are still there or because latch still not right. I will see if anyone from the infant feeding team can help (I asked to see them before I was discharged but didn’t happen).

katniss that’s really detailed and helpful thank you - I will try breast compressions etc. I can certainly make sure I have lots of snacks

dottydally I will definitely try a bit longer, I’m so pleased you managed to make it work with your little one!

mrsd28 thank you, it’s good to know this is normal and other have made it work with 2.

notmycar interesting about pump not being as effective, because I hardly get anything from the pump! I’ll try to grit my teeth and have her on the nipples for longer!

stairgates thank you, I will definitely keep on a bit longer.

A pump is no way as effective as a baby. The thing with breastfeeding is that supply will only increase by baby feeding lots. So I think I would try and let baby feed from breast as much as possible and this will ensure you have good supply in the coming days. If you feel like you’d like some support then I think many breastfeeding consultants will offer video conferencing support at the moment. Check they are IBCLC accredited

The amount you can pump really isn't an indication of how much milk you have. I can barely pump anything but DD3 is very chunky.
Have you been putting on Lansinoh? It really saved my nipples.

Definitely don't worry about what you can get when pumping! I get next to nothing when I pump now but he still feeds 8/9 times in 24h (more now because it's so hot). Your baby is so so much more effective than a pump xx

I breastfed all four of my babies, and I could also never get anything out with a pump, they just didn't work for me for some reason. I too thought it meant I had a supply issue but I found out that's not true at all. It's also normal for babies to be constantly at the breast in the early weeks, breastfeeding isn't just about getting full, suckling makes them feel really safe and secure. I completely understand its hard work, especially when you have older ones! My third baby wanted to suckle what felt like 24/7 so I introduced a dummy, which she loved. It didn't interfere with breastfeeding at all. Saying that if you want to stop all together, or introduce more formula that's totally up to you and there's absolutely nothing wrong with it if that's what works for you :)

Speak to local breastfeeding groups or la leche league

Yep agree, contrary to popular opinion expressing does not “keep up supply” in the same way a baby does. A baby will slowly increase supply, a pump will slowly decrease. There’s a complicated feedback mechanism when a baby feeds that stimulates supply. Everything from the sucking, to looking at your baby.

Your supply is not likely “rubbish”, but chances are the formula plus expressing means you haven't kept up with your baby’s needs.

Bear in mind bottles are easy for a baby, bf is relatively hard work, so chances are they will take a lot of milk quickly from a bottle, and need to sleep to digest it. Bm is more a slow drip.

So. What do you do? If you really want to keep up bf, you need to bf as much as possible. If they will suck, let them. Even if they aren't feeding the sucking will help supply. So park up on the sofa, and feed.

Having said that, reestablishing supply can be draining. If you need a break you could try a dummy, or try a bottle of ebm. Formula if you really need, but try only giving small amounts just to keep them satisfied while you get a rest.

Of course the other option is to carry on mixed feeding. I always say that’s a good solution, but be emotionally prepared for the bf to be gradually replaced by formula. Some people can mixed feed very successfully, but others it either slowly decreases supply, or the baby prefers formula, and it does result in formula feeding.

It’s pretty much down to you and how determined you are to bf .

Whatever you choose though, i’d dump the expressing if you can. Takes twice as long as just feeding and is less effective. Just put the baby on the breast instead.

I'm another who can't get any milk out with a pump. Ebf 2 DS's and continued bf to 2yrs+ and never got pumps to work.

It's normal for small babies to be on the breast all the time; it increases your supply and comforts them to have your nipple in their mouth.
They have mini growth spurts regularly at this age: 10days, 14 days, 4 weeks. You think you've cracked it and then you spend 2/3 days unable to get off the sofa because they're feeding so much (it can feel like you're failing when actually you're doing brilliantly).

Ebf does ease up. That's not a reason not to combination feed but from the experience of mum's I know it's easier to maintain bf if you can reduce the amount of formula you're giving.

In my opinion and experience, it’s not worth martyring to the breast.

You know you’ll be a lot happier if just put her on bottles all the time.

I was bottle fed I’m fine, my kids were they’re fine. No one can tell once their older it barely makes a difference.

*In my opinion and experience, it’s not worth martyring to the breast.

You know you’ll be a lot happier if just put her on bottles all the time*

How is the o/p? “Martyring” herself? She wants to bf, whats wrong with that.

Bit judgy too saying she’ll be happier on bottles. The baby is 8 weeks old. She needs comfort and why would she be happier not bf?

I had all these comments. Bf was easy for me and I had no issues, but I still managed to martyr myself apparently.

I never get anything out with a pump, but the size of my son will tell you that I definitely have milk!
It is normal to cluster feed at this point. If she is having plenty of wet and dirty nappies she is getting milk. As others have said, it is easy to get into a cycle of slightly dodgy latch, expressing, giving formula and all of that slowly reducing your supply.
If you want to carry on with breastfeeding, the best thing to do is to feed feed feed. If you want to stop, that's also fine.

@bluebluezoo if you want to ask me a question it’s probably best if you tag me when you quote me.

It’s an expression get over it.

Reading between the lines it looks like the OP is asking for “permission” to swap to bottles to make herself feel better and not feeling guilty about not doing it. And in my opinion it’s not worth martyring too.

I repeat. In my opinion. I really couldn’t care less if you agree with me or not. It’s a discussion forum. The OP asked for advice. I gave mine. Don’t like it, scroll past?!!

Totally normal to be feeding loads and loads while they are tiny. I'd say not being settled at the end of a feed could be that shes still finding things difficult though, might be worth contacting one of the breastfeeding helplines. With my first breast compressions and a bit of change really helped her latch and we finally got good feeds and a blissfull break in between.

www.laleche.org.uk/getting-breastfeeding-on-track-after-a-difficult-start-the-3-keeps/