Different furlough positions in the same household

[ScottishStottie]

Myself and DP work for the same company, and have both been furloughed for the last 3 months, on 80% pay.

In the last couple of weeks, dp has been unfurloughed and is back to work. So on 100% pay again. Ive been going with him most days as our job entails traveling to different sites, am extra pair of hands can help speed the job up significantly so we both get home in good time (checked with management that this was ok while on furlough, they agreed as dp is not doing extra work he could not do on his own, and as we are one household theres no social distancing issues)

Issue is that the lines seem to have blurred over what dp expects of me. Both weeks ive taken 1 day 'off' where ive stayed at home to have a lie in. Both times ive done this dp has come home grumpy and moaning about how bad his day was. I dont think he would ever say he expects me to go with him as he knows its not fair of him, but it appears to be the unspoken feeling.

Im not prepared to stop helping altogether as i would feel soo guilty sitting at home, i just need ideas on how to make clearer the difference in our circumstances.

Because our money is joint its not really as though he is personally benefiting from the extra 20% pay, it just means our household expenses are nore comfortable.

So are you going to stop going in and committing fraud then?

If you had an accident on site and were injured you probably wouldn't be covered by the company insurance, although as they ok'd it, you could argue the toss, but then they 'd be in a shitload of trouble for defrauding the furlough scheme.

I agree with PP, you should not be doing it at all.

You're not allowed to volunteer for the company you've been employed and furloughed by. I work for a charity and one of our part time staff does 5-10 hours a week voluntarily. If she had been furloughed (she hasn't) she would have had to stop.

@mindutopia

You shouldn’t be working. And if you have no reason you need to be furloughed (childcare responsibilities), you should be unfurloughed to return to work. There is clearly work you could be doing.

Gosh, if my employer could furlough me (they can’t), I’d e able to secure myself an extra few months on my contract and a lot more financial security by having taxpayers pay for me to kick my feet up. Instead I’m killing myself working with 2 dc at home.

Its funny how you know exactly the curcumstances of my being furloughed isnt it...

You do know that business have had to conpletely grind to a halt the last few months, and that perhaps return to work is a bit more sensible to do gradually as and when work comes back? Ie there is enough work just now for 25 full time staff in a company of 250. But yes, as i have no chuldcare responsibilities i should be back to work.... Trust me, i would love to be back at work now.

@heartsonacake yes i am going to stop now, genuinely thought until now that what i was doing wasnt breaking the restrictions.

Pay structures are either salaried or zero hour daily wage, but no specific contracted hours each day. Just as long as you do the tasks to a high standard.

Yes, but you are employees so one assumes your contract is one of personal service and does not normally permit you to subcontract your work out or send a substitute.

There is also the question of minimum wage laws.

@user12699422578

Pay structures are either salaried or zero hour daily wage, but no specific contracted hours each day. Just as long as you do the tasks to a high standard.

Yes, but you are employees so one assumes your contract is one of personal service and does not normally permit you to subcontract your work out or send a substitute.

There is also the question of minimum wage laws.

As i said above, this info was in response to a pp asking why we could go home early when finished. Not as justification for helping dp.

Minimum wage laws are over an average of a certain amount of weeks, and as the daily wage or salary are a decent amount, is never an issue.

You do know that business have had to conpletely grind to a halt the last few months, and that perhaps return to work is a bit more sensible to do gradually as and when work comes back?

And that is why the law will be changing. But it hasn't yet and that isn't what is happening here so it is not relevant.

@user12699422578

You do know that business have had to conpletely grind to a halt the last few months, and that perhaps return to work is a bit more sensible to do gradually as and when work comes back?

And that is why the law will be changing. But it hasn't yet and that isn't what is happening here so it is not relevant.

It is whats happening though... The company have unfurloughed 25ish staff out of 250. So gradually. And again you are quoting something i said in response to a pp and taking it out of context against my original op. Might help to read the full thread and not just my posts.

OP, from 1 July anyone who has been furloughed at any time before 10 June can, if agreed by employer and employee, be part-time furloughed. So I suggest you take this week off but ask your employer whether they would agree to you both being half-furloughed from 1 July. Then you can legally do what you are doing and the money coming into the household won't change as you'd basically both be bringing in 90% (50% from working and 40% from furlough) and there's be an equal split of work and not working.

And whilst I agree with others that what you have been doing was unlikely to be OK within the rules, as you were providing a service for your employer (even though not bringing in any revenue), there is definitely a grey area around volunteering. For example, if you worked at a nursery, you couldn't eg remotely tell a story by video to the children in the nursery as that would be providing a service, but you could post a video on Facebook for the children at home to watch. (I know this because I've looked at exactly this issue, as had staff who wanted to do something to keep in touch with the children and had to work out exactly what was within the law.)

Its funny how you know exactly the curcumstances of my being furloughed isnt it...

But OP we do all know the circumstances of furlough because the law is the same for everyone. It is completely illegal for you to be doing any kind of work, paid or voluntary, for the company that has furloughed you.

You (personally, I believe) can be asked to pay back the furlough money if caught or reported to be doing any work for your employer. It is illegal and your employer is fleecing taxpayer money by taking the furlough money and then allowing you to undertake work.

You likely aren't covered by works insurances if something happens to you on site and you aren't paid to be there.

Why do you think they chose to unfurlough him before you? Do you think he would come with you every day for free if you had been unfurloughed and he hadn’t?

@Fettfrett again, that was a response to a pp who told me that because i didn't have childcare commitments to be furloughed for i should be back to work.

@AliMonkey yes that sounds like a good solution, if theres only enough work for one person of the two of us, taking half each sounds fair! And as you say, wouldnt affect the household income! Hadnt thought of that, but will suggest it if im not back full time by then! Thanks!

And yes the other way around, dp would be with me every day, more so than i am, or have been anyway.

In our household we operate on the basis that we both have equal access to money, and to leisure time. Because I’m a sahm, I end up with most of the housework, maintenance, childcare, appointments, etc. But if/when I’m working then that work gets redistributed between us or outsourced.

It seems to me that he’s feeling the inequality of leisure time in your situation. Does he get to lounge around a bit more at the weekends to balance out your “relaxation days”?

Your employer will tell you when your furlough ends and when you should return to work. You and your employer have breached the legislation.

@Parker231

Your employer will tell you when your furlough ends and when you should return to work. You and your employer have breached the legislation.

This. That’s all there is to it. You must not do work for your employer while you are furloughed from that job. That’s the rule. It’s very clear.

I know you might want to help your husband but you are furloughed. So help him by getting stuff done around the house while he’s working. He absolutely should not be guilt tripping you.

Oh OP it is exactly against the rules of furlough (and your employer doesnt care because he isnt paying for the furlough).

You arent insured and are breaking the rules so it needs to stop.

I dont think you are aware (or indeed is your company director) for the implications of if you were caught (although as a PP said July 1 it changes)

www.gov.uk/guidance/check-if-you-could-be-covered-by-the-coronavirus-job-retention-scheme

www.geppsolicitors.co.uk/site/blog/criminal-law/furlough-penalties-extended#:~:text=Being%20found%20guilty%20of%20such,possible%20could%20face%20similar%20punishment.

I actually am going to go against the grain a bit as I think that you're getting a slightly rough ride on here (especially from the person who called you codependent).

The way I understand it is the job is to go and do a certain number of tasks at a site, the tasks vary from site to site. As soon as you've finished the tasks you can go home.

By you helping your husband, you get the tasks done twice as fast and then have a lovely afternoon together.

So for example... your husband is asked to move 1000 bricks from a barrow to a shed. It would take him five hours to do it. Or you can do it together in two and a half hours, and get the afternoon off. The pay is based on completing the tasks NOT the number of hours it takes. And no one would be expected to do more tasks if they finish early.

I can totally understand why you would want and choose to do this - one to split the load which is nice and two to get more lovely free time together.

If someone offered me £30 to wash their windows, and OH and I fancied a picnic later we would absolutely split the job to free up extra time.

But technically people are right and it's breaking furlough rules. That said... it's totally within the spirit of it.

You aren't allowed to work to stop 1) your employers ripping you off (but they aren't because you chose to do it benefit you) and 2) ripping the govt. off (which they aren't because no extra work is done / the company makes no extra money).

It's interesting that the company has okayed it - since they are the ones who could be fined if the government found out. And there's a real coronavirus sneak mentality at the moment so that might worry me a bit in your shoes. (Especially since employers won't be thrilled if you land them a fine).

Also the insurance thing is a big red flag for me: it would be awful if you were injured and not covered. (Only you can know how likely that is).

I see you've decided to stop - and fair enough. It might be better for the reasons above to be within the furlough rules. That makes your original question about the resentment of your day off irrelevant at this point.

You may still want to think about it though. As if you now stop helping the resentment may build further. This is quite natural FYI - I totally resent that my partner isn't working right now when I'm exhausted and working my ass off. Even though I know it's not his fault at all.

Our solution is that he has become "house husband" while furloughed. That means that when I finish we have the evening to do what we like. I still cook because I enjoy it. But he does absolutely everything else house wise etc. So my contribution is going to the office, his is running the home.

But OP we do all know the circumstances of furlough because the law is the same for everyone. It is completely illegal for you to be doing any kind of work, paid or voluntary, for the company that has furloughed you.

This.

Why do you think the law doesn't apply to you? Or your employer?

You are causing a potential problem rather than resolving an issue.

Wait until the rules change and make decisions within them.

Sorry but you two aren't special and exempt from the rules.

I don't know why you are so aggressively defensive to people who are just clearly telling you that your actions are not within the rules of furlough.

I'm just intrigued by the husband who isn't capable of doing his own job without a 'helper' - if the roles were reversed would he be going in with you every day? Or would he be having quiet days at home resting waiting for you to come home?

He is of course capable of doing the job , bit its nice to be able to help him out. As @OnceUponAThread said, its not for altruistic reasons, i quite like having dp at home earlier so we both can have a nice afternoon together. its not that he needs his hand holding at all.

But until this thread i genuinely thought what i was doing was ok as it was not benefiting the company and hadnt been asked of me, but understand now i was mistaken.

[quote ScottishStottie]@heartsonacake i was just explaining to a pp about why we get to finish early sometimes. Not as a justification to why im helping him.

I think i would resent the expectation that i should be doing all the cooking and cleaning while dp is at work. While furloughed so far we have both had a pretty relaxed time. So for me if im not at work my relaxed time should continue. It shouldn't change to all of a sudden being responsible for all the household things that will take up my whole day.[/quote]
If you are at home all day while your DP is at work, why would you resent picking up the housework and preparing food for you both?

When you say that you'd understand if a site manager turned you away - would they actually know, though? Wouldn't they assume you were both sent by the company? I would think there's quite a lot of potential here for paying clients to be a bit pissed off that - from their point of view - the person sent to do the work brought along his girlfriend, who wasn't sent by the company, to do some of his work so he can go home early. What happens if they complain about any of the work that you've done?

He is of course capable of doing the job , bit its nice to be able to help him out. As @OnceUponAThread said, its not for altruistic reasons, i quite like having dp at home earlier so we both can have a nice afternoon together.

And yet you also say you would begrudge doing the cooking and cleaning while he's at work...

Doesn't make sense really does it? And if you've had a relaxed time while on furlough so far, even if you did his share of the cooking and cleaning you're being incredibly melodramatic to say it will take up "my whole day".

You've gone back and forth on this thread between saying you would feel mean not helping him work if you can, to saying you don't want to do a greater share of cooking and cleaning if he's at work and then back to saying you just want to help him...

As an outsider looking in it just smacks of a couple who want to live on each other's pocket regardless of how unprofessional or inconvenient it is. It sounds codependent and immature.

This is real, adult life. He is working, you are not allowed to while on furlough. Because he is working and you are not, you have more time to do things like cooking and cleaning temporarily during this unprecedented situation.

Can you hand on heart say that if you were still working full time and he was at home furloughed, you would expect him to 'relax' all day and say you should still do half of all the cooking and cleaning?!