What on EARTH does this say? Place name in Scotland

[TressiliansStone]

I'm enjoying the National Archives' free access at the moment, but some of the handwriting is turning my eyeballs inside out!

Hillend I can make out, but what on earth comes next? All I can decipher is that they are in Roberton and Wiston parish in Lanark.

Hmm. I believe you're trying to read four rows of knitting there. HTH.

Hell's teeth that's tricky isn't it?!

I've looked at a historic map of the Roberton and Wiston parish, and it's a bit of a long shot but do you think the word after Hillend could be Laidegill? (going by the L of Lanark further down). There is a place on the map I looked at called Ladygill, and I think that map is from 1842, so depending on when your example comes from, it could be that the place name / spelling evolved slightly over the years.

It's very hard to make it out on my phone though, you might have more success on a bigger screen.

IsMiseMorag

Ooh, Laidegill I'd go for. I'd tried Saidgill (per an S further up) but you're quite right.

The document is indeed 1840s, but there may have been variant spellings at the time.

Which 1842 map are you looking at?

Yeah, I must say, an L definitely wasn't my first thought either!

I used this:

www.scottish-places.info/parishes/parmap928.html

I'm not sure if it'll look the same at first for you as it does for me now as I've been faffing about with it. If the map's got little symbols on it then click on the + sign to get rid of them, click the tab to look at the historical version, and double check that you stay within the black lines they've drawn round to show the parish boundaries. I kept going in to a different bit, because it's so hard to read on a wee screen.

I'm not getting that second name at all though. I'll have another look when my eyes have stopped bleeding 👀😂. Good luck!

I think they’re referring to glebelands: I used to live in Wiston and Robertson is down the road. Laidegill / Ladygill and Hillend would both fit in that there are a couple of references to them in present day local landmarks and house names (Hillend Farm, Ladygill House and Ladygill Farm are in / just outside of Roberton) suggesting they were built on lands of that name.

The other word I haven’t a clue.

Aha! That's enormously helpful!

I'd been on that site fruitlessly: hadn't used the same search terms and didn't know how to drive it.

Now I can see Hillend and Ladygill[sic] next to each other, so that's almost definite.

My best attempt at the third one is Dorgait...

See if you can find records of burials in local churchyards: Wiston Church (now converted into a house - formerly mine!) has quite a number of headstones where the deceased’s geographic history is included, some with quite detailed information about lands formerly known by another name.

Here are some examples of some capital Ds, courtesy the parish of Douglas.

ComtesseDeSpair, wait, what? You used to live in Wiston Church-as-was?

Yup, but moved back to London last year. What’s your connection with the area? It’s a very small part of the world!

Indeed it is. Given a time machine you would undoubtedly know the family I'm researching. In fact, you still might.

I'll PM you...

(Erm, but will have to find my MN password first...)

Some of the properties are described as "a part of the ten pound land of the Kirktown of Douglas".

I've been wondering what that meant. Is it somehow a reference to them being glebelands?

I assume that would relate to local tax valuations of lands and estates which had been feued out (feudalism in Scotland was slightly different to feudalism in England.) The overall ten pounds would be what the landlord owed in overall taxation and varying amounts would be collected from all of his tenants according to the size and type of land they occupied?

Is it Hillend, Scuilegill ?

Still trying with the third name, can't make out the capital letter but think it ends in 'quit'

Anything on old maps have similar names?

Bloody hell! My grandparents are buried in that churchyard.

I'm not going to bother with record offices and censuses and BMD certificates any more.

Just ask MN. Someone's bound to know in person.

There's a FB page called the lost houses of Clyde valley, they are experts for this area they will decipher this and probably be able to tell you more about the area.

Glebelands are lands belonging to the Church.

The lands of Hillend, Scuilegill and Gorguit in the parish of Weston and Roberton as the same are fully described in the disposition thereof in my favour by Sir William (somebody?!)... Baronet and... that's my best attempt!!

Oh god, you'll go blind trying, pinkcarpet.

So far I have that extract as:

of them and to such other person or persons as shall be assumed by them (which they are hereby authorised to do from time to time as they shall think fit) the majority part accepting and surviving at the time being always a quorum all and whole the lands of Hillend Laidegill and ???? in the Parish of Roberton and Wiston and County of Lanark as the same are more fully described in the Disposition thereof in my favor by Sir William Honyman Baronet and James Marshall Writer to the Signet trustees appointed by the Right Honorable Robert Mc Queen of Braxfield as also all and whole

I'm particularly fond of the orthography of the word "surviving" (fourth row of knitting).

Oh yes, I'd forgotten about that website, redyoyo. They had some old photos of other houses I was researching.

Just spent a fascinating few minutes with an old map, this might help you maps.nls.uk/view/74400129

It looks like this digitised document has lots of place names in the parish listed... but as it seems to have been automatically transcribed, lots of them aren't really accurate or searchable but it may bear fruit if anyone were to read through it all.