Applying for jobs as a woman of childbearing age

[DonaldJTrumpet]

With all the redundancy announcements that have come about recently and a likely impending one on myself, conversations have happened with my DP who does hire. I don't.

His last few have been women because they happened to be the best person for the job. However, with the last there was a discussion regarding her age and likelihood to date to procreate as a woman in a high position had one child came back for six months and left again. She now works part time on the salary she left with pro rata. Apparently she is a pointless employee, not just his words but the words of anyone senior within the company. She was great. Currently she is of no value but gets double average annual salary for a half week. That's not her fault as I see it and what she is worth.

My point is that soon I will be applying for jobs. I am of childbearing age and have a child. I am done having children. They can't ask me that and I can't just bring it up as a side point. It is not fair that I am judged to be likely to be off for nine months after passing my probation and therefore less likely to get a position than a male counterpart. Yes they can take the time off but it isn't the norm. This is on the back of a safe spaces/JK Rowling debate which DP wholeheartedly agrees with. He said some one of director level got their position because they wanted a woman on the board and the latest hire is black because they needed that diversity so I may be more likely to get the position. I disagree.

It's not fair. And discussing whether the last candidate was likely to go on maternity leave was illegal.

Why is the woman who has gone back part-time pointless? If she was capable enough to justify a senior role and high salary, I'd expect her to be able to bring at least the % of value she's being paid for to the company in the time she has.

Well I agree. The salary and position was earned. She then has two children as she is able to do. If her role has no purpose then she would be made redundant or they would say it was not plausible for her in her role. The issue is that people say she planned the births to coincide with year end so everyone else got the stress.

Yes, these conversations are illegal but they happen. When I first told my employer I was pregnant I heard them hiring my replacement and saying they only wanted to hire men or post menopausal women. Should have been my hint to leave.

I presume when you do go back to work that your husband will do his fair share of taking time off when your child is too sick to go to childminder/nursery/school? Or will he expect you to take it off all the time? He seems to have odd views of women in the workplace.

No we had a child a very long time ago. All sick time was split.

Obviously DPs hires are discussed with other members of staff that are to be involved with the hire. That's where the conversations took place. He says he will hire the best person for the job but a woman is more of a risk for the company for this reason and I should expect to face some discrimination, unfortunately.

@DonaldJTrumpet
In your case, I'd advise adding a passing comment in the application that refers to the fact that you have developed some xyz skills as a parent, but now wish to pursue applying these in your future role for the next chapter of your life.
I did when rtw. Only applied for 2 roles, got them. Not sure if helped, but was true....

Interesting! I am going to start planning interview answers so something like that could be worked in. I think to keep my job I will have to interview and to get another. It's something I struggle with.

I was thinking make it clear somehow to an agency if I go through one and imagine it will be passed on.

I think it's inevitable for some people to be uneasy about employees potential maternity leave. It's not great for women but while you can bring in anti discrimination laws changing attitudes takes longer.

I can see both sides of the argument but it is hard on women as we are expected to work like we don't have children but raise our children like we don't work. I am on maternity leave and am not going back to my department as I have secured a secondment. If the stars align I am planning my second to coincide with the end of my secondment but who knows ☺️

It’s grossly unfair but it happens. The best you can do is project an image of a woman who has no interest in having any or anymore children (regardless of if you do) and lie if you have too.

How to do this... I don’t know exactly but looking more polished, fashionable, not ‘mumsy’

And don't pull up in a people carrier

I always insert it into my sales pitch. Address it head on, along with all the ways I "mitigate it", childcare arrangements. They're thinking about it, so I reassure them. It's not right, but it is what it is, so address it.

I only struggled with employment when my child was pre school age. Friends with family for childcare struggled less getting job offers/promotions in the preschool years as this is seen as more bulletproof iykwim. If you had your own childminder, au pair, or nanny I think this would reasure them. Emphasise how "good" and "helpful" your partner or ex is (true or not).

I don’t understand why the employers allowed this person to go part time if it didn’t work well for them? I thought it was optional. Could they not overturn the decision now and get her to return fulltime?

I think it's difficult to overturn a decision to let someone do part time. You don't always know how it will go.

It’s utterly shit but unavoidable, I think. About ten years ago, when being hired for a corporate role, my interviewer basically said - you’re of child bearing age, what are your plans? Completely illegal of course but there you go 🤷🏻‍♀️

I have three Dc. Just turned 40. Just been made redundant from an INCREDIBLY flexible and family friendly organisation. I am part mourning the loss of the flexibility already. I will try to hold out for similar but at this point, I sort of feel like beggars can’t be choosers. I guess my thinking is accept the first role I am offered, because I am the main earner and we need to pay our mortgage. Then when the pressure is off, look for more flexibility.

Whilst your DH's company is out of order in discussing the likelihood of female candidates to take maternity leave, and whilst I welcome and support the increasing willingness for employers to grant part time working arrangements, I get where DH is coming from.
We have a few p/t employees in our team and it seems they are never around when you need them. F/t colleagues have to arrange their calendars attend the days the p/t people work, and it does seem that crises more often happen at the end of the week when a crucial p/t manager doesn't work, meaning less well paid people have to manage it to resolution.

That’s silly. It should be easy to over turn the decision, if it doesn’t suit a particular role.

Making it difficult just means companies who have had bad experiences will just say no to future requests from other people.

I've often thought, wouldn't it be interesting if men at interview were adversely judged on how little they expect children to interfere with their work?

I'm female and a recruiter, and manage on a tight budget. And I'll probably be flamed for saying this, but yes, I do think about such things. The fact is that even one maternity leave in my team can cause chaos. But having thought about it, I then discount it! I'd be amazed if anyone managing staff can say in all honesty that managing absences for any reason is easy, so maternity is just another hurdle. Of course managers think about these things. Being a good manager means not letting it get in the way of good judgement.

But it does piss me off that the burden falls unevenly on women, and that's often even where the women earn more! And that also means that where women are in the majority in a team, it falls unevenly on those teams. We're still far too far away from equal "opportunities", because men still expect to have their jobs taken more seriously.

It's always going to be difficult when the one person who is allowed to sign off xyz or something is part time. I think sometimes a person goes part time and management see it as a way to save money when really it needs to be a job share.

I’m currently job hunting. I’ve said in interview that my current role was a step back to focus on children when they were young. Now they’re teens I want to step back into my career. All this is true, by the way.
I’m hoping that it lets them know I’m not going to go off on maternity leave and I don’t have to leave Early every night for childcare.

It sucks that this is even something women have to think about.

Its wrong, its illegal but I know for a fact people still make decisions on the basis of a woman's age. It happened in 2 SMEs I worked in. Openly discussed in front of me that they would never hire a woman of child bearing age.
I have been out of the workplace for many years (Self employed but no workplace as such). I'm retraining now and hopefully won't get the next whammy of age discrimination.

We are a small firm. We hired a woman - very senior in the company - she became pregnant nine months after hire - took loads of time off sick, wouldn't travel, took a year maternity and on her return told us she was pregnant again and wants part-time, flexible, no travel. It really is not a great situation for us and I suspect when we hire again it will be on the back of our minds.

The next whammy of age discrimination! Yes, once we can no longer breed we are too old to work! What a joy!

I'm not sure if DP reported to this lady for a short time when there was a move around or if it was another (I believe there is more than woman in the Fortune 500 company) but whoever it was had Thursday and Friday off. There was no contingency for the staff she managed. I remember DD was sick and he had to leave but there was no one he could asked his line manager wasn't there. They're obviously terribly disorganised.

I went for an informal discussion about a job where I met the most senior person there. He told me very openly that he wasn't really looking to appoint a female as he had lots leave recently to have babies and that had to come into consideration.

This was about 5 years ago. I was young, naive and applied for another job in the company rather than the more senior one I was more than qualified for. I got the job but the only problems I ever had arose when I was pregnant.

I don’t think it serves anyone to pretend these conversations don’t happen, even if they don’t happen out loud you can’t stop someone thinking about it and coming up with another reason why they didn’t hire you.

I’d just be up front about it, as in ‘I know you can’t ask me about it but I’m not going to have any more children and I’ve got x,y,z in place for childcare’ - then it’s up to them whether they take it in to consideration or not.