African-American?

[PurpleButterflyAway]

I want to start this by apologising for my ignorance and if this is offensive in any way. I have no wish to hurt anyone or be racist in any way and I’d really like to be educated on this.

I’m wondering if someone (preferably someone that is BAME, since it’s your view on this that counts) could explain why you’re called African-American and if it’s black people all over the world or just in America that’s called this? Possibly the stupidest question to ever be asked, and I really am sorry for the ignorance and if that’s offensive/hurtful.

DP and I were discussing the protests here in the U.K. and he kept using the term African-American which led on to the discussion that anyone of colour living here in the U.K. isn’t called African-American since we’re the U.K. and not America. But I’ve never heard anyone called African-British/English/Scottish/welsh/Irish etc which got me wondering why the term is African-American, especially if that person is just straight American/British/whatever nationality.

Feel like I’m making a tits up of explaining so I’m really sorry. I was just wondering if there was a reason behind it, or if you find it offensive to be called African-American if you’ve no link to either country and would rather just be recognised for the nationality that you were born?

To try explain, I was born in the U.K., my parents were born in the U.K. but one of my grandparents was born in Germany. I’ve no links to Germany other than my grandparent, I’ve never visited it and I don’t know any family out there etc so I only class myself as British and I’d rather not call someone African-American if it’s just another way of pointing out race/differences and making people feel like they don’t belong somewhere.

Does that make sense at all? Again I really really want to apologise for the ignorance, I’d hate it if someone started questioning the terms I use for myself and I know there’s nothing I can do to prove it but I mean no offence whatsoever.

Thank you to anyone that can answer, I really appreciate it

African-Americans are American.

Black British, Afro Caribbean, West Indian etc are terms which might be used here.

Not all black Americans are African American either. I’m mixed race and although one of my parents is Black we don’t fit into any of these “boxes”.

There’s no “one size fits all” ie assuming if someone is Black that they are automatically African American.

Think about it logically, would you call a white German, “White British” or an Italian person “Hispanic”?

@NameChange84 that’s where my confusion came from, I’d said to DP that anyone of colour in the U.K. wasn’t African-American as we live in Britain and anyone born here is British, not American, but he was adamant that African-American was the correct term. Thank you for explaining though, I was getting myself in a muddle over it.

I think perhaps we need a better education in schools etc surrounding this. I’m unsure if it’s covered now, but back when I was in school there wasn’t anything related to other cultures/races. We covered different religions in high school for 2 years but I don’t think that’s adequate to teach anyone about life as a whole, about different races or acceptance. Again I’m honestly so sorry for any offence caused, I really don’t mean to hurt or upset anyone

You haven’t said anything offensive don’t worry!

Just to add, I tend to find here that here you might say you are “Mixed Race” like me or “British Asian”, “Black British” or just “British” if you were born here but you might also say “My family are Iranian/Nigerian/Greek/Polish/Jamaican etc”

It would be far more offensive to refer to someone Black British as African American. African Americans often have a background of being the descendants of slaves for example and there’s a whole lot of culture/emotion/history tied up with that. If you called someone who was born here to parents who sought refuge in the UK following the Rwandan genocide, “African American” you’d be very wrong and it could be assumed by referring to all Black people as African American that you think all Black people are descendants of slaves which is pretty ignorant and offensive in itself even if you have completely the opposite intention.

Again, you haven’t caused hurt or offence in your post.

In terms of myself, I tend to be hurt when people make a big deal of my race. So coming up to me and saying “What are you?”, “You look exotic/foreign/half-caste/Mediterranean/Arab etc”. The whole point for me is, why should that be an issue? What assumptions come with that? Many people in this country can go to a party and not have people wonder “what they are” or make assumptions based on their looks. Don’t get me wrong, I know someone with red hair might have people assume they are “firey tempered” or someone with glasses is “intellectual” or a fair haired person is a “dumb blonde” and that’s all horrible too. But it gets very wearying to constantly have people make negative (or even positive) assumptions based on your appearance and the country/culture your parents are from or even to wonder if your skin tone somehow makes you a different entity.

Based solely on skin/hair/facial feature and my cultural background I’ve had people assume;

I’m oppressed as a woman
I’m sexy/good in bed
I’m a prude/inhibited
I’m a good dancer/musical
I’m not intelligent
I’m poor
I’m rich
I’m dirty
I come from a smelly house
I’ll be trouble
I’m opinionated
I’m passive

Etc.

And I’m fed up of that.

I’m a human. You are too. End of.

Why would he be adamant that African american is the correct term when this isnt bloody America.

That's just stupid.

Black British, people of colour etc. They arent bad words. Using African American sounds like your husband is trying to avoid any words with colour connotations.

Surely there are millions of black people with no links to either America or Africa!

It’s only applicable to Americans, and by no means all. It is not a universal term. There are African Americans in the U.K., but only if they happen to be Americans living here.

@NameChange84 thank you for your posts, that’s a very insightful view and I really appreciate it. I’m sorry you face that kind of attitude, it’s definitely not right. You are a person and that’s the only thing that should matter, I know reality isn’t like that though.

I’ve never heard of the Rwandan genocide so I think that’s my research for this afternoon too. But thank you, I honestly appreciate it.

@BobbieDraper It’s not so much that he thinks they’re bad words, or that he’s trying to avoid anything to do with colour connotations, I think he was trying to avoid anything that could be seen as racist. But I will be speaking to him when he gets home about it, he’ll hold his hands up and admit he’s wrong.

@StealthPolarBear that was what I’d thought. There really should be better education on other races in school though, we’re a very diverse country and education ought to reflect that. I think it’s going to be the only way to stop ignorance like this and hopefully the less ignorance, the less hate

The term ‘African-American’ was largely adopted by black people during the civil rights movement to acknowledge that they were stolen from Africa.

My Caribbean origin cousins in the US generally don’t use this term they tend to refer to themselves as black Americans.

I’m British of Caribbean origin. I do not deny my roots but I’m British/Black British/Afro-Caribbean British.

I wouldn’t be offended as such but if anyone referred to me as African-American my immediate response would probably be I’m not American, in the same way a Spaniard might say I’m not Italian.

I hope that’s useful. It’s probably more a question of nationality than race to be honest.

I think use of the term African-American is lessening in the US now.

Just to add an extra layer OP, more recent immigrants to the United States often don't identify themselves as African American as that is often seen as related to descendants of slaves who were brought to the USA against their will and who may not know where in Africa their ancestors originated.

I have friends who are first- or second-generation and describe themselves as Nigerian-American, Ghanaian-American and Kenyan-American respectively, and who would also identify with the term "black American" as Laaf says.

@Laaf80 it is, thank you.

It must be really frustrating and exhausting to come up against so much ignorance in the world, I really appreciate the explanations though

Even the ‘Afro‘ part of Afro-Caribbean is a nod that Caribbean folk are mainly descendants of enslaved Africans.

Though it is sometimes used as a shorthand for African and Caribbean folk.

I think most black people in the UK are happy with Black British to be honest, though I wouldn’t like to speak for us all.

@Xiaoxiong thank you to you too, I’d not known African-American was a term for descendants of slaves until today. Definitely given me a lot to think about

There is a lot to be exhausted and frustrated about, confusing my nationality in this scenario isn’t really one of them assuming the recipient is not then going to argue with me about what I am.

It’s a bit like a British person saying they are Scottish/English or Welsh. Some identity terms are interchangeable or flexible depending on the situation (if that makes sense).

Your DP is a social idiot and his stance is offence. There as your more questioning and considered stance isn't.

This is a bit of a light hearted comment but many years ago I read a chick lit novel. 2 white folks in New York inherit their white god daughter when her parents die. They try to get her into a posh private school and someone makes a comment that it's a 'shame she isn't a minority' because schools think it makes them look good if they take 'minority' children.
Anyway when filling out the form the bloke ticks 'African American' as his ethnic group. When questioned about it he says his (white) mother was born in South Africa and was a South African citizen and then emigrated to America and became American so therefore is 'African American'.
Obviously that is fiction but many 'Africans' can be white.
Elon Musk is South African and also an American. Therefore he is African American.
One of Brad/Angelina (biological)kids was born in Africa. She would be entitled to citizenship from both America and the country she was born in.
Basically what I am trying to say is using the phrase 'African American' as a way of identifying a person by colour is a bit daft because you can be 'African' whatever skin colour you have. Apparently this phrase has become unpopular in the USA.

@bookmum08, as @Xiaoxiong says I think the move is to country/nationality rather than continent.

So Jolie’s son would be Ethiopian-American and Elon Musk South-African American in the same style as say Italian Americans as opposed to European-Americans.

If they wanted to refer to themselves as African-American it wouldn’t necessarily be incorrect as after all, all such tags are political/historical rather than biological.

The thing is so many people (in American especially) have such a mix of backgrounds. White people have been emigrating to America for 100s of years now and if Mr and Mrs Average White American did one of those DNA ancestry things it would probably contain dozens of nationalities/race/ethnic groups so most don't consider themselves to be 'xxx- American'.
I think the problems with the phrase African American is it is used as a way of describing something by the colour of their skin. For example if the police put out a description for someone and that person happens to be black they would say "African American Female about 5ft tall with long hair". If the person was white and blond they wouldn't say "Swedish American Female about 5ft tall with long hair".
They would just say 'white' .

The phrase is problematic as is acknowledged by many black Americans. It’s only been in common use since the 1980s and is synonymous with black Americans/civil rights movements. It was Jesse Jackson who bought it back to common use, First recorded usage is in 1700s but it wasn’t common as black people were not fully classed as Americans at this time.

Prior to it’s use ‘black’ American was more common and is still used;it isn’t ‘African American Lives Matter’ after all. Prior to that it was generally coloured and other derogatory terms that I won’t mention.

In your police example, I guess if African American usage is removed, the fall back would be black. Incidentally a police call out for a St Lucian citizen would be as wrong as a call for a Swedish woman.

What term would you prefer?

I don't know what I wouldn't prefer. Obviously the colour of a persons skin is important for identifying someone - not just in crime obviously but if someone had gone missing and people need to know what they look like.
It's a tough one.
Surely the colour of a persons skin should only be importent for description reasons.
If an individual has a specific background (nationality) that they feel identifies them then that would be their choice to use it. But have it as the standard 'phrase' - I don't know.... it just feels that it's lumping millions of people together as one group ('African American') because of the colour of their skin when people's backgrounds, beliefs, what they feel identifies them is going to be different for everyone.

It is interesting the different use of language here and the US.

I’ve known black people in the UK who dislike “people of colour” as they see it as no different to “coloured”, and it basically lumps all non- whites into the same ethnic category. Yet americans see it as the politically correct term and “black” as the offensive.

Here the police would use “AC” as descriptive qualifier- afro caribbean. The US seems to not acknowledge that many black and mixed race people have caribbean heritage, or is that because caribbean isn’t their true heritage, as they were likely brought from africa as slaves?

I have heard Americans like ' the hodge twins' say they are American not African American as they have never been to or come from America. Some say the term African American is a racist phrase.

The term African American refers to the descendants of enslaved Americans. That is the ‘lump’, I think? English does refer to ones belief or background either? Nor does Caribbean?

In fact the term Caribbean lumps all people from the region yet there is no such country.

Im not sure that that the term ‘black’ is offensive to ummm... AA’s.

Do UK police use Afro-Caribbean as a descriptor? I thought they used black/mixed race? How can they tell if someone is AC or Ghanaian in origin?

Christ this is complex!