Talking to children about BLM and racism.

[ShuffleHop]

I've been talking a bit about the BLM protests and racism to my DD in recent weeks. She's 8, and to be honest I feel slightly guilty for not having many conversations about this before beyond "some people treat other people badly because of the colour of their skin and that's wrong". It never previously occurred to me to go in to much more detail, and I'm very aware that's a big flashing sign pointing at my privilege.

Relevant information: We are white British. I grew up in London and went to a very multicultural school and had friends from many backgrounds, however we now live in a predominantly "white" area. Dd's (smallish) school has only two non-white families, and she is friends with one of the girls. Although DH and I do have friends and acquaintances from various backgrounds, none of these people are local so DD doesn't really see them much.

I feel like I'm waffling on to her about something she can't actually place in her real life. I see confusion and "but I'm friends with x and we don't treat her any differently, why would we?" on her face and then there's a bit of polite zoning out. I am trying not to lecture and just turn the conversation sometimes but she probably hears it as lecturing anyway! I can't articulate what I mean very well here, but I worry that the very act of banging on about it almost sounds a bit superior (this is not quite right word but I can't think what I mean!), with a tinge of performance parenting, like "oh but of course I know we don't do these things or have these issues, but it's currently in the news so I should tell you about it darling". I do feel uncomfortable about me or her mentioning the same few people in this context so I try not to.

Anyway, my question is this: Where am I going wrong? She seems too young to really delve in to the nastier stuff to make an impact when it's not something that affects her as far as I can tell. But again, I can see my own privilege all over that statement! How important is it for them to "get it" at this age? Arguably they do "get it" at their age better than most adults? Do I just continue to drip feed information over time? I'm probably over thinking and starting to sound like a right prat, but I want to get this right... Can anyone help?

I’m not sure that young children notice skin colour much. Attitudes (for good or bad). will be absorbed from parents, so IMO it’s your example that will influence her most.

Dds attended an English speaking school abroad for much of the primary stage - there were children of various ethnicities, including several mixes - Dutch/Indian, Australian/Vietnamese, etc.

I well remember one dd asking me in puzzled tones what ‘Eurasian’ meant - she’d heard another child describing her mixed-race best friend in those terms.
That had almost certainly come from the parents, and since I knew them I suspect that the word was used in a derogatory sense, even if they said nothing explicit.
Which is what I mean about your example/attitudes being the most important thing.

Might add that dds thought we were a very boring family, being just bog standard Brits instead of an interesting mix!

The thing is if kids don’t learn about race at home they will learn about it at school. I know so many white kids whose parents were amazing (think anti-Nazi protestors / actively anti-racist) in every way except communicating with them, and who turned out very racist as a result.

Suggest you start with the following book list. ‘No! My First Book of Protest’ is quite frankly amazing - it can be used to teach your dd to be vocal about all injustice.

www.smithsonianmag.com/smithsonian-institution/twelve-books-to-help-children-understand-race-antiracism-and-protest-180975067/

It isn't a matter of lecturing ...

Black, Asian and other non-white people are only a 'minority' in U.K. statistical information. They are in the majority everywhere outside Europe, North America and Australia/ NZ.

So ... what proportion of the books in your household are written by non-white people? Not books about 'race', normal books - fiction, poetry, history, adventure, science.

When she brings a science project home - do you make sure to discover and discuss the work of non-white scientists? The same with mathematicians, philosophers, architects, artists, clothes designers.

When she begins to consider her future career - will you be making sure she speaks to university undergraduates and Fellows who are not white? And following the successful career trajectories of non-white practitioners? Doctors, politicians, gardeners, whatever.

D'you see what I mean?

Thanks all 😊 That's an excellent point Perdita. DD is an avid reader but no, in all honesty I haven't actively sought out non-white authors or considered her bookshelf as a whole. I will rectify that. She loves the "rebel girls"/women scientists/historical figures books and similar and we often chat enthusiastically about whoever she has just been reading about. They strike me as having a good representation of people but I will be conscious of it now and have a look at authors of fiction too. She does have books written by non-white authors, but if I go and count them up now I fear I might find it's not a representative number...

Thanks Grumpy, I'll seek that one out, sounds like a good read for anybody!

I do try and set a good example too obviously, but the last few weeks I've been doubting whether that is enough in the world as it is ☹️

I talk to my kids about whatever’s in the news - we used Newsround to open a conversation about BLM and some people being less safe in society and having fewer choices and opportunities open to them because of their skin colour. Moving it away from “we” don’t treat people differently towards a conversation about how we live in a society that does indeed treat people differently and how easy it is to not notice when someone is being treated unfairly.

My D.C. are 7 and 9, while I’m careful about how we talk about things, we do talk about racism. There are some good books which include stories of role models Including from BAME communities, we have a different story each night. Define yes to actively looking for black role models, professionals etc so children see a good cross section of society and their achievements.

Don’t they watch the news?

She watches newsround most days. We've picked it up again now but it had dropped right off without thinking about it during lockdown and a different routine. I tend read rather than watch news myself. As such, the protests were already underway in London before she was really aware it. I've rectified this too.

At eight years old a non-white schoolchild in the U.K. who objects to something her eight year old white friend does or says (random something, nothing to do with 'race') might well be told that she 'has a chip on her shoulder about being black'. Have you made sure that your daughter would never, ever say such a thing?

When you browse websites for clothes and trainers, are you sure you consider brands owned, managed, designed by non-white people?

UK art galleries have a history of suppressing the work of black artists, if they ever bothered to acquire any. When you visit galleries do you (casually ...) seek out such work - and question the curators if there isn't any?

Have you made her aware of contemporary (as well as historic) non-white composers, opera singers, playwrights, stage designers? She'll probably be more aware regarding film-makers - it is important that you reverse the perception that black people in particular only succeed here in football and grime.

There's so much you can do that is positive - and she will grow to understand that these successes come in spite of ... the other stuff.

CherryPavlova you're fortunate if you recognise your own life from what you see on the news!

I certainly don't.

PerditaProvokesEnmity Often not, sometimes though. Clearly the news has to be discussed and contextualised for children.

Of course. I had actually assumed that the OP's daughter had supervised access to TV/radio/written news every day. But it does give a distorted picture.

I'd like to think that she would never say anything like that Perdita. She has never heard that or similar phrases at home, or anywhere that I know of - although I'm aware that will change at some point. I've always discouraged commenting on people's appearance in a general way and she is kind and thoughtful and will hopefully stay that way! I should reiterate to her that comments around race or assigning any characteristics or using stereotypes around it are never acceptable.

Thank you for your thoughtful and thought-provoking answers by the way

I've been trying to link a nice article in today's FT How to Spend It magazine, but it won't do what I want ...

And I'm always seeing stuff (probably via Instagram) on gallery and museum curators across the world ...

Remind her that 'Minority Ethnic' is a term used in the U.K. to make non-white people feel small and unwelcome (whatever the stated intention). I'm sure this is obvious to you but it's worth saying that there are continents where most citizens go about their lives, minding their own business and not being accosted with being called 'BAME' every other second of the day. They are proud of their homes, their families, their universities, cities, art, philosophy and their own appearance. They're not looking for white people's approval. They're not interested in being anyone's pity project. And they don't care what people in England think of them.

On the other hand, for an illustration of ... how life is, I (strongly) suggest you take a look (be quick!) at the first few posts on this thread:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/_chat/3936292-BAME-WOMEN-IN-HOSPITAL?msgid=97388858

Interesting, huh?

That thread is.... Yeah. Reading it with the expectation I did, it seemed obvious that the op was looking for people with a particular experience, and why that was. But if I'd stumbled across it without the context of this thread... I can imagine where the "but what about x/why just BAME..." reactions come from. I would never have said it but can't guarantee it wouldn't have crossed my mind as I too have a "PALS are useless" experience. Probably that doesn't show me in a particularly good light either (!) but I'm trying to be honest, and to learn to spot these seemingly small things which are actually a big deal.

Past studies and a continued interest have given me a reasonable grasp of the inequalities in health outcomes and some of medical history's very questionable ethics and practices as mentioned on the thread, but more information is never a bad thing.

Again, thanks for the food for thought