BAME WOMEN IN HOSPITAL

[LizzieKane2000]

Hello

I have had terrible experiences in hospital.
I was misdiagnosed and have suffered a decline in health due to Doctors failings.
I don't want to go into details.
But I do want to ask if any BAME women have also had appalling experiences - then gone through the complaints system.

I also don't like the term "BAME"
I'm not looking to debate this.

I also am not here to "prove" that BAME patients suffer health inequalities - look up stats pre covid if you want to go there.

Bumping for you.

Though I suspect this silence suggests that, for the vast majority of relevant women, making a complaint is just not something that occurs to them as they would have no expectation of being listened to.

I’ve had a terrible experience in hospital. I am white and it was at the hands of a white HCP. I was treated like shit on her shoe, ignored and the. told I was overreacting. Rather quickly I declined and it was proved I was not overreacting in any way.

I complained anonymously because I didn’t want to get tangled up, I wanted to get over the experience. Is this an option for you?

Unfortunately some areas of the NHS are in a terrible state and the care provided doesn’t even qualify as care. It seems disrespectful to write that when so many NHS staff are working like dogs and making major sacrifices. But unfortunately there are some awful staff as well.

In fact, I have actually never been treated disrespectfully by any BAME HCPs. I have been treated terribly by 2 x white HCPs (10 years apart). That said, the vast majority of the white HCPs have been amazing. It just takes a minority of awful ones to really mess things up.

I’d guess that the HCP who treated you badly had treated many others badly as well.

ekidmxcl, with the greatest possible respect, you may have missed the point of this thread ...

I don’t understand why you’re just asking about BAME?
I’m white. I had terrible care and PALS did fuck all.
My sibling is white. They had terrible care and also almost killed their child. PALS did fuck all.

@Immunity

Because clearly it is a situation where the OP is BAME and therefore wants people to answer who are similar to her.

Duh

Thank you for your responses.

I don't doubt you and your sister had a terrible experience.
And I know PALS doesn't work for any patient.

I'm not even going to get into the statistics on BAME inequalities.
Look up mental health disparities, cancer care outcomes and deaths in childbirth.
And remind yourself the NHS is free for all.

You also know your history no doubt:
Henerietta Lacks? The pill - Puerto Rican women? Marion Sims?
I can't believe I'm even writing this.

The NHS is an institution like the Police, Education, Parliament...
It's not even about if the Doctor or nurse treating you is black or not.

Again, any BAME women had terrible experiences and went through the complaints process?

@PerditaProvokesEnmity

Bumping for you.

Though I suspect this silence suggests that, for the vast majority of relevant women, making a complaint is just not something that occurs to them as they would have no expectation of being listened to.

Thank you.

@Immunity

I don’t understand why you’re just asking about BAME? I’m white. I had terrible care and PALS did fuck all. My sibling is white. They had terrible care and also almost killed their child. PALS did fuck all.

Did your sister report this to the General Medical Council? She should have, her complaint unlike BAME complainants would likely have been investigated.

You can see the stats on this.

ekidmxcl

The OP is only asking BAME individuals to come forward.

@DanRadcliffeisME

ekidmxcl

The OP is only asking BAME individuals to come forward.

I was not looking to make this a debate guys honestly.

If any woman has a bad experience she should complain and follow that complaint through.

I give up.

Don't give up OP. Sometimes it takes a while for people to understand what you are trying to find out. Lots of people are caught up in their own experiences and read your opening thread with their own experiences in mind. The extra information gives people opportunity to forget your main message.

Maybe repost more simply, asking for comments from BAME patients who have gone through the complaints process. It will be harder for people to misunderstand.

@picklemewalnuts But she did ask that though, as you can see below. It's just that some people either genuinely misread a post or feel the absolute need to chime in regardless of what's been asked, even when they know it's not aimed at them. I wasn't going to add to this thread for obvious reasons but I was watching it to read other people's experiences and I thought to point this out.

OP, I hope you get the answers you seek

But I do want to ask if any BAME women have also had appalling experiences - then gone through the complaints system.

Extraordinary that such an important thread, which might have garnered hundreds of relevant posts, has effectively been quashed ...

I worked in Mental health. BAME patients were treated appallingly, far worse than their white counterparts.

It was BAME staff who treated them terribly as well as white staff.

I complained countless times to the CQC. All it did was get me sacked.

OP, a close relative of mine lost more than a decade of her life to foot-dragging, lack of interest and blatant discrimination - including an episode where she was 'accused' of having malaria when she attended a GP's surgery for a serious gynaeocolgical issue.

But, as I indicated above, she felt there was noting to be gained by making a complaint. It was a whole series of decisions and inactions that cumulatively led to her almost dying of severe anaemia. Years later I know she's still traumatised by the experience.

I had a terrible experience l. Twice. I tried to verbally complain and was spoken to like I’m
Uneducated and illiterate. Brushed away multiple times. Didn’t file a formal complaint yet because I’m just fed up with being brushed away.

But will be happy to join forces with other BAME women

Sorry to clarify I’m Ethnic minority yes. And was questioned about “where do you come from” by a midwife In hospital in a deregatory way when I was complaining about being unhappy by my childbirth experience which had medical negligence. I’m British, speak perfect English.

She also questioned my mental health when I was asking questions about my birth experience and decisions made “are you feeling mentally well? You sound overly anxious, you don’t sound right?”

I was to file a proper complaint as this isn’t even the beginning of it.

I recently gave birth in a hospital where all the maternal and baby deaths were BAME despite BAME only being 5% of the local population. In my case baby almost died because nobody listened to me when I asked to be induced earlier for specific medical needs. I pushed for an induction at 40 weeks which is why my baby survived but I would have had a totally different experience had I been induced from 37-39 weeks.

The reason?

My condition (a very common clotting disorder in India but one that is rare in the UK and as such disregarded by the NHS) doesn’t flag up as requiring extra care on the system. I was consultant led, had a whole team, had specific medical conditions, but pushing for the induction was still regarded as a MH issue. The fact that I have an English accent and am confident with medical matters means my baby has survived - had I not been I would have had a stillbirth.

I think next time I will definitely try to get some kind of private maternity care. If only because money seems to be the equalizer when it comes to BAME care.

And to quote

“In this country we shower in the morning”. When I didn’t shower before the pediatric nurse came in because I had given birth 6 hours previous and was lacking sleep and I was producing large blood clots that another midwife was concerned and needed this stupid one to come in.

But I was quite polite and dismissive as all I wanted was to get home safely. But I feel angry at myself for not saying something back at the time to put her in her place.

Thank you.
This is exactly part of the problem.

What ppl don't understand is that it's about which patients NHS staff/GMC/CQC/NMC e.t.c know they can treat as second class citizens and get away with.
Class is obviously also a factor.

It is probably even to an extent an unconscious bias.
I know of a retired nurse who told me that when they had to cancel appointments they would always do so with BAME names - less likely to complain. therefore the nurse wouldn't have to deal with an angry/upset patient.

The complaints process is about fobbing patients off and it's easier if it's a patient from a BAME background.

Thank you for speaking up at the time. I am so sorry that you were sacked. You are what the NHS needs.
And I know the politics that goes on in hospitals after someone complains about another person.
I can't imagine what it did to you.

If it's any consolation in my case - during an internal procedure the nurse objected to what was happening. I was conscious.
I won't know (not yet) if that nurse went on to file a complaint.

But I can tell you when I have been in pain and suffering bad flashback it is that nurses kindness and her objection that has somehow kept me afloat.

Sorry that was for billyjoearmstrong.

New to all this.

I think as so many women regardless of ethnicity, have had appalling experiences that everyone wants to shout about this.

I agree with what you are trying to do here though. It’s specific, it can be investigated, evidenced, proper change can be implemented. I just wish rather than everyone taking to the streets, we can look at things like this. We can actually DO something about it.

Anyway best of luck with the thread OP. Sorry for interrupting.

@PerditaProvokesEnmity

OP, a close relative of mine lost more than a decade of her life to foot-dragging, lack of interest and blatant discrimination - including an episode where she was 'accused' of having malaria when she attended a GP's surgery for a serious gynaeocolgical issue.

But, as I indicated above, she felt there was noting to be gained by making a complaint. It was a whole series of decisions and inactions that cumulatively led to her almost dying of severe anaemia. Years later I know she's still traumatised by the experience.

Thank you. I'm sorry for your friend.

That trauma is very real, even if you are not left with the medical consequences years later - what happens is that you are often scared/anxious about Doctors/nurses.

My own Father stopped going to the Doctors over ten years ago, because the GP mocked his bad english.
I know of several older people from the bame community who are like him.

@1ForAllnAllFor1

I had a terrible experience l. Twice. I tried to verbally complain and was spoken to like I’m Uneducated and illiterate. Brushed away multiple times. Didn’t file a formal complaint yet because I’m just fed up with being brushed away.

But will be happy to join forces with other BAME women

Please complain. And if you are made to feel like that - complain about that as well. Class discrimination.

But know that - it's not you.

When we are patients we are vulnerable - don't let them take advantage of that.

In my own case I was vunereable, scared and anxious. Even PALS took advantage of that.

@1ForAllnAllFor1

Sorry to clarify I’m Ethnic minority yes. And was questioned about “where do you come from” by a midwife In hospital in a deregatory way when I was complaining about being unhappy by my childbirth experience which had medical negligence. I’m British, speak perfect English.

She also questioned my mental health when I was asking questions about my birth experience and decisions made “are you feeling mentally well? You sound overly anxious, you don’t sound right?”

I was to file a proper complaint as this isn’t even the beginning of it.

This is a classic repeated method.

I was told "unlike others you speak good English most of our patients wouldn't even understand"

Which really scared me - How are people from my community who don't have the confidence or English to complain or even speak up about their care treated?

That "mental health" threat they use against BAME women who speak up is a serious issue.
But until NHS staff speak up - who is going to listen to a woman who has "anxiety" or "low mood" in her records?
Which have been written after she challenged/spoke up about her care.
Please follow your complaint through.
Good luck.