Number of years in European schools.

[Blackbear19]

Being curious about the number of years in European schools and the age kids start at.

Scotland average start age is 5.
Primary 7 years
Secondary 6 years

England average start age is 4.5
Primary 7 years
Secondary 7 years.

What's your point?

I don't really have a point other than curiosity. I only realised the other day England has a year more in school than Scotland.
But in other countries who start later do they have less years in school.

It's not really fair to compare Scotland to England as Primary 1 is more comparable to Year 1 than Reception. As you said our children start school later in Scotland, with the very youngest child being 4 years and 6 months old (pretty uncommon- most tend to defer their January and February born children) and the oldest child being 5 years and 6 months. The vast majority of children are 5 years old starting school.

Primary 1 in Scotland is more comparable to Year 1 rather than Reception

Just realised I started and ended my post with the same sentence

The situation in German schools is horribly complex because the exact details vary from federal state to state - and there are 16 of them! But generally kids now start a bit younger than they used to do - 6 is now more common than 7 - and it takes 12 school years to get a leaving cert if you go to a grammar school and 13 years for kids at a general secondary school (both of these used to be a year longer). In most states kids go to primary school for only 4 years, which means the kind of school they subsequently attend is chosen very early on, and that is obviously extremely disadvantageous for kids from working-class or migrant families. The whole system is geared towards exclusion and testing rather than actually doing any effective teaching or encouraging kids to resch their potential. Oh, and home schooling is illegal!

Presumably most children in germany arent just playing at home with no exposure to words or numbers before u though?

Before 6. Not before u 🤦‍♀️

@PineappleUpsideDownCake

Presumably most children in germany arent just playing at home with no exposure to words or numbers before u though?

This. When people start talking about how children "in Europe" don't start school til 6 or 7 I always groan. They all start school much younger. It might be called maternelle or kindergarten or whatever but basically they're in school all day every day learning. It might be more play based and less formal education but it's education nevertheless and they're not just at home doing nothing.

In Ireland there is 8 years of primary and 5 or 6 years of secondary. 4th year of secondary is mostly optional (it is compulsory in some schools) and is a year to develop extra skills and do work experience. Children can start school here from 4 but most are at least 4.5 if not older, Summer born children are mostly 5 starting school.

Mentounasc
Thanks interesting that the start age has dropped.
4 years is an incredibly short period of time at primary. I was expecting it to be a little shorter but not 3 years less!
But even more interesting is the overall number of school years is 12/13 is similar to Scotland.

I deliberately didn't ask about Pre-school as I felt that would be too confusing. Scottish kids start at 3, oldest in the year group get 2 full years of 15 or 30 hours depending upon luck. The youngest kids get a year and a term. Most kids make use of their free place.

aplo Your kids must be about the same age as Scottish kids starting our cut of date is 1st of March hence youngest 4.5 oldest 5.5.
But 8 years at primary - wow! I didn't expect that. And you have same number of secondary years as Scotland. Our kids depend upon age can leave after 4th year.

My kids went to German schools. Our local free, very high quality Kindergarten had kids from ages 3-6 (I think some were 2, working parents were guaranteed spots) with loads of activities and many of them were reading and doing math before formal school. The Germans just believe young children learn best through play. I agree it's a fallacy that children are not in any structured setting where learning is happening before formal school.

They actually had lots of very stimulating activities and sat down for delicious meals together. There was a big purpose built gym in the Kindergarten for example and they played outside and were taken to the forest to explore in all weathers. The outside play area had loads of toys and tools for making and creating.

That sounds great @Wishingstarr

In norway start they start school aged 5 and stay at the same school until 13 when they go to high school.

Good quality nursery places are provided for everyone and it is odd not to go. In their last year before school they will do some numbers once or twice a week, but I was also surprised to find out that some of their play time was not random but play based learning (making shapes with bodies etc) and did just read that children who get to play certain types if games are better at maths later, so though not sit down learning their education has already begun before school

Update 5/6 years old - all the kids will be 6 by Xmas in their first year

To clarify in Norway kids start school in the Autumn of the calender year they turn 6 so the majority are 6 when they start and all turn 6 by the end of december. There are 7 years of primary (4 in lower years followed by 3 in middle years) followed by 3 years of lower secondary. After that upper secondary offers various education pathways of various length. Schools are usually 'primary' followed by 'lower secondary' although some schools particularly in rural areas might be lower years only or all through primary combined with lower secondary. Upper secondary schools are completely seperate. To do the equivalent of a levels would take 3 years in upper secondary, some courses are 2 years. So 12-13 years of education, 10 of which are compulsory. Kindergarten is usually attended (youngest stage from 1-3, then 3-6) but not compulsory and also not (usually) free. Some municipalities have free core hours in the preschool year.

Spain the year they turn 3, which means that some are still 2 when they start.
It’s obviously a very different type of environment to the later years.
Parents can choose not to send them until 6 and teaching reading isn’t in the curriculum until 6.

My kids are at a Swiss primary. They start kindergarten the August after they turn 4. They start 4 mornings a week. By Christmas they have built up to 5 mornings a week and around Easter, when they are expected to walk themselves to and from Kindergarten, they also go one afternoon a week.

They start formal learning at school the August after they turn 6.
Yr 1 (6-7 yrs) goes 5 mornings, home for lunch and two afternoon lessons 3 tines a week.
Yr 2(7-8yrs) 5 mornings, home for lunch. One late afternoon til 4 with three lessons and two with two lessons.
Yrs 3&4 (8-9,9-10) as yr 2 except they start lessons early at 725 twice a week.
Yrs 5&6 (10-11,11-12) 3 early mornings, one of those is a half class. And three afternoon lessons 3 times a week.

Tagesschule (wrap around care) at our school is available on Tuesdays before school; Monday, Tuesday and Thursday lunch times; Monday, Tuesday and Thursday until 6. Wednesday and Friday afternoons there is no school and no Tagesschule.

It is not unusual to repeat a year of primary (e.g. for SN or language reasons). They are allowed to repeat twice within their school career. These repeated years don't count towards the legal minimum of 9 years. 12 is usual.

I'm not quite sure about secondary. They do 2-3 years of streamed secondary and then split off to Gymnasium (if they want to go to uni) or a Trade/vocational training. At the end of the 2 years of secondary , if a lower streamed child decides they want to go to uni, they can use one of their repeat years to do a catch-up course to get into the higher stream.

In France official school starts at six but preschool from the year you turn three is now mandatory unless you choose to homeschool, which is a tiny minority.

As mentioned elsewhere. It is not just looking when school starts. It just does not make sense. Although school starts later in many of these countries eg Scandinavian countries most children are in some form of nursery /kindergarten /childcare even if eg the parents don't work and this is heavily subsidised so not the burden it is here in England. Therefore even though school as such doesn't start they are in an education environment

Wow so in effect compulsory education starts at 3 in France

Yep, even at 2 and 8 months if you are a late DEcember baby.

The Germans definitely feel that's it's oppressive to put young children into structured school or do structured academic activities before school-age, so they aren't doing structured reading and math in the Kindergarten the way UK children are. On the other hand, if they show an interest and if their parents have taught them, so be it.

As a previous poster mentioned, formal school in German is much stricter and more structured than in the UK. Some of the frequent activities they do have not been done in British schools for decades. For example, from a young age they have dictat where the teacher reads out a passage and the children have to write it out with correct spelling and grammar.

Because of the intensity and strictness, I think this is why Germans see school as almost a sad end to the carefree times of early childhood. If schools were more child friendly there wouldn't be such an abrupt transition. Primary school is only 4 years and very full-on. There is a lot of judgment by the teachers and students of each other. In the art class for example there was a "right" way to create art! If you colored "outside the lines" it was definitely a negative.