Do you have to put your DC to bed?

[LegoPeople]

I feel like the clueless baby days when i came on MN to ask how on earth do you put babies to sleep and where the instruction manual is.

From around 7pm daily im shouting chaperoning them (now 5yo and 6yo) to get into PJs, brush teeth and read a story if they would listen. It's next to impossible to get them to calm down and go to bed. (I've given up on bath these days) l am so exhausted, I usually fall asleep before them. In the morning they are up before me no matter what time they go to bed. I find them asleep on the floor, in the loft, on top of the stairs... even on days I take them out on long walks to burn energy. Do my two have ADHD?

@Stuckforthefourthtime thanks for all the suggestions. I think you r right about the bath and lack of attention (both parents working). I'm going to try enforcing baths again. it causes so much tears and drama but it marks a routine. And also pillow fight idea / join in their play to tire them

Before lockdown they are in bed by 8-830. Older sometimes stays up but in his room. Younger is generally sleepier child (always been since baby).

I like reading so it's my main weapon. Sometimes it works but sometimes they get disengaged and restless then rowdy again.

Loft - I believe what happened is they moved some furniture duvets and pillows there to build a den and fell asleep on the floor.

Re taking away privileges I've tried for other things. I have other issues with my older. What happens is if I say, no TV / toys go in cupboard he will say fine, I dont care and gives me the remote/toy. And he really doesnt care. Hes a stubborn emotionally charged one and I find any kind of punishment actually creates a vicious cycle of worse behaviour.

@legopeople if they like making dens, could they create a cozy one in one of their rooms / on a bed and sleep there? Mine often make one on the floor and snuggle up together. Personally I don't mind, so long as nothing is damaged and they're still.asleep on time, and it lets them feel like they're still in charge of something (and having fun), plus I think it's really lovely for the sibling bond.

The younger does not want to share a room

@pluckedpencil yes lack of mental stimulation! Tonight they slept at 9pm... I agreed to let them switch bedrooms (and I mean they've dragged out clothes etc from wardrobes as well to switch).

Thanks all.
I do need to establish an adapted routine. I pop to my laptop all the time and obviously need to draw a line and put more effort into doing a proper bedtime.

Maybe I cant remember clearly after 3 months at home 24/7, but I swear pre lockdown it was "night night darling!" School just wiped them out.

Ooh and sympathise with the stubborn streak - my DS3 is like that, it reminds me of the kid from the Breakfast Club, it's like he can't give in. It's been good for us in a way as I do far more 'natural' consequences for all of them. When a loss of privileges is required - which for us is hurtful actions or language - I tell him that I will make a plan for what to do next in 5 minutes once we've all had time to breathe, the space helps him.calm.down and us not to.get annoyed in the heat of the moment and either escalate or back down.

@stuckforthefourthtime yes yes they love making dens. Omg they are normal then! The weekend just past they used their cot mattresses and blankets and camped out next to me. Though, they wouldnt shut up so i think I still fell asleep before them and woke up stepping onto lego.

You have my sympathies, my daughter is a night owl and sleeps late. I get comments from everyone I know, but no constructive help. I have given up and allow her to sleep in my bed , but I'm a single parent so no one to object.

I think they are old enough to understand that it is not safe to go downstairs at night without you, and you could explain that they could have an accident etc. So they don't have to sleep buy they cannot roam around the house. Audio books sounds like a good idea, could you use a smart speaker so they can control it? And some dim lighting to help them settle.

If you are both trying to work presumably the tv and iPad are needed to occupy them to allow you to do that so removing those would be a punishment for you.

I know a kid who gets a sweet every morning first thing for sleeping on time in their bed all night (this wasn't sufficient motivation for my child though)

We cracked bedtime in lockdown as we had more time to deal with it. Mine are 6, 4.and 2.
Two things - be firm. Rewards!
We wrote a really clear chart with expectations. One tick for going upstairs with no fuss, one for brushing teeth with no fuss, one for getting into bed with no fuss.
They are allowed one story each. No asking for food or drinks or anything once upstairs. They have to think of it before they go up, or they don't get a tick for getting into bed.
Once in bed they can listen to stories on audible, but they can't get out of bed.
If they mess about we shut them in their rooms and tell them to put themselves to bed, no stories, no audible.
Before this bedtime took ages as they'd ask for things, want more stories, and we'd have to sit next to them.
We did the chart for 10 days and they all got a prize (toy) as they had all ticks.
No chart any more, but habits are established.

Swap with dh for a while. Sounds like mornings are a breeze in comparison.

Sorry, no advice but some solidarity. My kids are same ages. I’ve always had a good bedtime routine, kids sleep through from 8pm. Now, during lockdown we’ve adapted the routine and accepted bedtime is more like 9-10pm.

All my friends are saying their kids are staying up much later (some still awake 11pm onwards) and struggling to sleep.

So don’t beat yourself up. There’s some good advice on here.

My older 2 have a shower , it’s quicker than a bath ...

Routine here is roughly :
Dinner 5-530
If it’s a nice evening , evening walk Then home by 630 -7 into shower and pjs
Light supper of cereal or toast
In bedrooms at 730 they usually read or play LEGO or watch a film until 9ish

They share a room

I don’t go to sleep before them ever

They are 7 & 9

When they were younger I would have same routine but it was me reading them a story then lights out at 8

They are allowed up later as they can read themselves now

Only water as a drink with dinner or later

My just turned 4yr old is an absolute nightmare at bedtime and can be running around until 10pm, he's always been terrible at falling asleep but is worse on non preschool days as we find it's the mental stimulas that tires him out rather than any amount of exercise so lock down has been fun. We've made a change to the bedtime routine so now it's bath/pj's then back downstairs for a game (we do jigsaws or a matching game) but you could choose something that requires concentration that's age appropriate then back to normal routine of story and sleep. It works most of the time. We've also found that treats work better than punishment probably because they are easier to keep to whether that's giving or not giving the treat (particularly as we have a 1yr old so we're more likely to give into a melt down if it's nap time for baby)

My 6 and 4 year olds can be a nightmare at bedtimes. If I take them up and come down before they're asleep they'll be bouncing on the beds, fighting,screaming sometimes for up to 2 hours. So I've started staggering their bedtimes.
They share a double bed so it's been tricky but doable. I take the 4 year old up, read a story and rub her back till she's asleep. Then I call the 6 year old up, read her a story, then sit with her a while. It can take a long while but it's worth it because then they are definitely settled.
My DH takes my 2 year old up and sits with him till asleep. And my 11 year old goes up when we tell him.

We had a good bedtime with bath and milk and stories but they used to get up and play sometimes after we had turned the lights out (used to share a room) My husband would sit on the landing outside their room so he could hear if they talked or got up and played. He would tell them to go back to bed straight away. It took a while but it worked in the end. You need to establish a good routine, otherwise it will never get better.