Would you choose to move to Scotland or Canada?

[Darlingyouvegottoletmeknow]

Would you move to Canada or Scotland? To a rural area in both. Eldest child in Y1, youngest a baby, we are in mid 30s.

Scotland

• Highlands village
• can both work part time
• buy a house outright with chunk of savings left over
• grandparent can visit every 2 months
• can move as soon as lockdown lifted
• keeps option of having another child open

Canada

• likely British Columbia, the island
• I would need to work full-time for the work visa, once Permanent Residency achieved could work part time (would take 1-3 years depending on factors largely outside our control)
• could buy a house outright once settled somewhere
• would take around a year to get documentation and visas sorted before we could actually move, and cost quite a few thousand, so only want to start this process if we are likely to actually move
• would see grandparents 1-2 times per year only (no relatives in Canada)
• would be harder to have another child as if still on work visa I couldn't take a full year of maternity leave

One option is moving to Scotland now and considering Canada in future when kids older, when I'd be happier to consider full-time work. Although maybe we wouldn't want to move then if children settled.

Have you visited either?

@Raphanus3217 yes to visit friends/ for holidays

Where did you go in Canada, how much travel around did you do, how long were you there, would you have the same standard of living as your friends?

Thanks, this thread is very helpful.

I guess it boils down to

• mid thirties, kids young, we've been saving money with a plan to enjoy our next move (with more freedom than if we were tied to jobs). Should we:

A - move somewhere we can have a great lifestyle now, working part-time, more time with our kids and for outdoors hobbies? Enjoy this period whilst they are young and wanting to spend lots of time with us!
B - international move now with the disadvantages of my needing to work full-time for the visa, the bureaucracy and instability of immigrating to a new country, with the intended payoff that it may be a 'better' quality of life for the kids?

Hi OP, I think what PP says about the drawbacks to moving far away won’t be now, but will be in ten years or so, when grandparents become too old to travel easily and may need support etc. That’s often the experience of people I know too- but how much you want to see your parents and family dynamics obviously key here! Another thing that seems to happen is if parents, eg you and your husband, decide to move back to uk, maybe because of elderly parents, and your children decide to stay there, or one does.

I have never been to Canada and have always thought it looks beautiful but from what everyone has said here I think you should go with Scotland. And as a GP you will be contributing to the local community so shouldn’t be resented, except by eejits who I’m sure probably exist in both places!

We were going to emigrate to Canada until we visited, had everything in place. Years of research, jobs in demand similar to op’s husband.Same area as op. We have family there, didn’t like it. Lived in Scotland a couple of times pre teens. I loved it but my mum hated it. I’d visit on holiday but not to live.

We found Canada, Vancouver area too sterile and and found it quite boring. We are outdoorsy but realised we were hankering after US with a few Canadian traits.

I’d emigrate to the US in a heartbeat. We have family there too. Know the Seattle/ Washington area and love it. Also love the East coast of USA. Maine in particular.

Could you rent a house in the areas you’re interested in to experience it as living there one last time.Do Scotland this summer if you can and Canada next? Make sure you pick houses in areas you could afford to buy in.

I'd move to Scotland for now, not least because it would allow you to have another DC (assuming you want one!). Moving an 12-hour flight and an 8-hour time difference away from home is a big move. I lived on the east coast US and that felt quite far when my granny was dying in hospital and I needed to get back here asap.

This is also a good point and one you should ponder on Stay close to family. When I lived abroad there were lots of people who had moved with young kids, grandparents visited regularly, all good. Fast forward a decade (or two), the grandparents were too elderly to travel and needing to think about care homes, the parents were thinking about returning to be near the grandparents but it was complex, and the late teen kids were so settled in the new culture that they wouldn’t move.

I was in Canada last year visiting relatives..yes I know it was only a visit but it was BC.
There were loads of things I liked about it. The scenery was stunning, especially North of Vancouver. Beautiful actually. Vancouver itself is a lovely city and Gastown is particularly pretty. Saying that there are obviously beautiful parts of Scotland too ( I live here).
House prices are eye wateringly expensive. My relatives struggled to get on property ladder ( they are now but took a lot of saving)and for young people starting out, its really difficult. A lot of people rent out their basements. Houses are a lot bigger.
Healthcare is good in Canada but they struggle to get GPs like here.
Weather is generally better, although they do get a fair amount of rain.
A lot of people have trailers so its normal for a lot of people to disappear there every weekend in summer.
You mostly need a car unless you stay in the city itself. Public transport depends on area.
Its cheaper for us to fly to Canada than it is for them to fly here ( although Covid19 might have an effect on prices now).
I found prices pretty similar to here ( but depends what you are buying).
US border is 15 minutes away from where we were. A lot of Canadians go over for gas and shopping as its cheaper.
I did like it, but probably wouldn't move there ( family reasons)

Scotland.

Canada's woke politics would make me feel unsafe as a woman.

Also drive out of the area. Things may have changed but we found not far out of Vancouver it’s miles upon miles of nothing. Literal tumbleweed.We turned round and returned. I found that weirdly claustrophobic. I’ve never found that in the US and have done loads of lengthy road trips. I get in the middle of the prairies you would but I wouldn’t choose to live there. If i chose to live in a city I’d want diversity nearby iykwim. Outside of Seattle there is so much to see.

It is horses for courses though which is important to remember.

Watched Cardinal on TV filmed in Canada in winter.
Travelled in BC in summer, absolutely gorgeous. But having seen rural Canada in winter, it's most definitely not for me.

I'd happily move to Caithness, we have friends there and have had great holidays with them. As you are a GP, have you heard of this scheme? I think they sort out accommodation for you

www.srmc.scot.nhs.uk/joy-project/

A - move somewhere we can have a great lifestyle now, working part-time, more time with our kids and for outdoors hobbies? Enjoy this period whilst they are young and wanting to spend lots of time with us!

This!

By the time you've settled in Canada, established a career etc your kids will be forging independence and probably resentful of their rural location, and your parents will be aging and less able to travel. So your period of enjoying the lifestyle will be overtaken by either career or family pressures.

Scotland gives you the lifestyle you want right now without the challenges of moving internationally.

Also do you really want to be super-rural? Places like Perthshire, Stirling etc are beautiful, rural, on the doorstep of the Cairngorms but good connections to Edinburgh, Glasgow etc and the East of Scotland is drier and much less midgy than the west.
You can easily enjoy hiking/climbing/biking/kayaking etc without being super-rural in Scotland

Scotland, as it would be easier to get used to, a bit closer to family, and easier to move back to England from.

Property prices in the Vancouver area are absolutely sky high.
Just saying. We have relatives there.

I think just looking around central expensive Vancouver on holiday isn’t what the op has in mind. There are rural areas that are great and VI would be a better choice.

Gastown in Vancouver abuts the big druggie area. We wandered into it by mistake and even I was shocked!

Scotland. It depends on various things of course- how how fussed you are by the weather, how easily you'll get jobs, which areas of Scotland you'd be considering etc. We moved to Cumbria 6 years ago and haven't regretted it for a minute. And we have friends who recently moved to Scotland from Twickenham and are living it. But we're all teachers, so jobs aren't so problematic. I'd love to visit Canada, but wouldn't move that far away from family tbh.

I might be going against the grain here but I think you should have done the move a couple of years ago before your child started school as renting in a couple of different places might mean lots of school moves and be a bit unsettling for them, is there any countryside closer to where you live now?

OP If considering the NHS Highland region, be aware that it has been a can of worms re bullying by administrators etc in recent years. Hopefully, brave whistleblowers will already be bringing about radical change, but please do a bit of historical Googling. For example here:
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-highlands-islands-48201713
I live in the area and have nothing but praise for local NHS people from the patients' perspective. But even they say that - ignoring bullying - it is not always easy. Compared with other places, frontline people have little local peer support. If, for instance, you are the only GP or skilled community nurse for many miles around, then who do you discusss unusual or difficult cases with?

That’s a shocking story about bullying @florascotia2. But I don’t think that’s likely to affect the OP, who is planning to work as an independent contractor to to the health board. She would not be their employee.

Thank you for the information about bullying @florascotia2, I will read that report. Actually whilst GPs are usually independent contractors/ employed by the GP Partners, I think in Highlands in some hard to fill areas they are employed by the Health Board as they can't recruit any GPs wanting to run a partnership. And yes generally worth considering that if you have only one potential employer in your region there is a risk of not having any other options should the relationship sour for whatever reason!

I might be going against the grain here but I think you should have done the move a couple of years ago before your child started school
unfortunately that wouldn't have worked financially or in terms of career, we had to achieve certain things in current location first

Scotland gives you the lifestyle you want right now without the challenges of moving internationally.
Yes this is how I feel ultimately. I suppose I'm worrying that we are missing an opportunity for our children in not moving. Although I don't think it's clear that Canada is a better opportunity for them.
Maybe my uncertainty reflects my worries about the direction the UK is taking generally, unhappiness over Brexit and uncertainty about Scottish independence (I don't have a strong opinion about Scottish independence, but I wouldn't look forward to more uncertainty).

Also do you really want to be super-rural? Places like Perthshire, Stirling etc are beautiful, rural, on the doorstep of the Cairngorms but good connections to Edinburgh, Glasgow etc and the East of Scotland is drier and much less midgy than the west.
You can easily enjoy hiking/climbing/biking/kayaking etc without being super-rural in Scotland
Yes I think this is what I want to explore. DH is taken with moving somewhere exceptionally beautiful, but you can get amazing countryside not far from a big town/ city even. Harder to research places though - I'll get started!

Thanks @MrsAmaretto, that is an interesting scheme, I'm looking into it.

@MittensTheSerpent yes I share your concerns, although I think SNP are wanting to take some similar directions.

@Raphanus3217 that's very interesting, what did you not like about Canada when you visited? Did you stay in UK in the end?

All other things being equal I would base the decision on which location has the fewest midges/mosquitos.

*Scotland.

Canada's woke politics would make me feel unsafe as a woman.*

@MittensTheSerpent

Unfortunately I already feel this way in Scotland. The political turbulence and wokeness in Scotland at the moment is draining.

Canada is nice, the people are nice but as a country I found it boring as hell. I much prefer the culture and history of Scotland although that's much further south. I like privacy and space and views and fields but I couldn't live cut off from major shops, deliveries, restaurants etc so would struggle with how remote parts of the H&I are, especially with young children.

Good luck whatever you choose OP.

Canada. I’ve lived in Scotland; I found it utterly miserable and I would never go back there.

I much prefer the culture and history of Scotland although that's much further south.
Do you mean further south in Scotland e.g. in lowlands bit? Yes I think that might be a better fit for us, if I can persuade dh!

The political turbulence and wokeness in Scotland at the moment is draining.
Can I ask, do you feel the people you know if Scotland are as ultra-woke as the politicians sometimes are?