What does 'immigrant' mean to you if you live in the UK?

[ContessaferJones]

Deliberately posted in Chat rather than AIBU as it's meant to be a conversation rather than right/wrong answers.

This topic was discussed the other night between me and DH when C4 was doing interviews with medics of Asian ethnicity. I think several of the people interviewed were described (and may have described themselves) as immigrants, despite having been born and raised in Britain and now working within Britain. I was a bit surprised by this as I'd have called their parents immigrants, but not them personally as they were born here.

This also made me reflect on my own position. I was born here to a British mother and an Arab father, then was raised in the Middle East til coming here for University - I was clueless about the UK, had no current cultural references and couldn't understand the buses never thought of myself as an immigrant though.

So.... What is an immigrant, to you/in conversation? Who fits that description? How far down the generations does it stop applying (or does it never end)? There are Americans who pride themselves on being Dutch despite having come across from the Netherlands over 100 years ago, so maybe never....

Interested to hear responses

@Epigram

My grandmother was Russian and came here as a baby just before the start of the Russian revolution. She spent nearly 90 years living here before her death and spoke perfect English - no one would have guessed she wasn't born British, and I'd never think of my mum as a second generation immigrant.

So I think we have to acknowledge the fact that it's about the colour of your skin as well as your personal history? My mum looks and sounds English so would not suffer from racism.

I was thinking this about my own situation this morning - I look very white and sound very British. Therefore when i first arrived, I got treated like a British person (albeit a slightly stupid one who doesn't understand basic British things sometimes) rather than an outsider. I think my early experiences would have been quite a lot different if I weren't so white.

@lljkk

Immigrant = Born outside territory of country where you live & without any parent of nationality of country where you now live.

But tbh, it's fuzzy if you moved to (country) as a child. Then you're more like 'child of immigrants' than a true immigrant.

Does any nationality besides British have the 'ex-pat' concept?

There were expats from the USA, Europe and Australia where I grew up, and they definitely would understand that they were under the 'expat' label in the country. Not sure how much of a thing it is in their home countries.

I'm American living in UK and I still don't understand what an ex-pat is.
I've only lived in Britain 28 years. Maybe I'll get it some time.

This thread here also addressed this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3918717-Expats-or-Immigrants?pg=1

My grandparents were British and emigrated as newlyweds. My mother was born abroad and my father South African. I was born abroad. My mother emigrated to England when I was 5, with me of course. I've since taken British citizenship and have a British passport, have been fully educated in this country and now live and work here. I suppose I am, technically, an immigrant but you wouldn't know it to see or hear me and I consider myself British now, as I have no real ties to or memories of my country of birth. It's interesting though - around the time of the Brexit referendum the school where I teach (majority white British) had many pupils complaining about immigrants (obviously taking what they'd seen in the media or heard from parents). I told them I am an immigrant and found their stereotypes and xenophobia quite offensive. They looked shocked and then said "oh we don't mean immigrants like you." So make of that what you will.

I think the expat concept dates back from colonialism? I mean British people living in India etc. Maybe that's why other countries don't have it?

@KatnissK

My grandparents were British and emigrated as newlyweds. My mother was born abroad and my father South African. I was born abroad. My mother emigrated to England when I was 5, with me of course. I've since taken British citizenship and have a British passport, have been fully educated in this country and now live and work here. I suppose I am, technically, an immigrant but you wouldn't know it to see or hear me and I consider myself British now, as I have no real ties to or memories of my country of birth. It's interesting though - around the time of the Brexit referendum the school where I teach (majority white British) had many pupils complaining about immigrants (obviously taking what they'd seen in the media or heard from parents). I told them I am an immigrant and found their stereotypes and xenophobia quite offensive. They looked shocked and then said "oh we don't mean immigrants like you." So make of that what you will.

Yeah, it hadn't occurred to me that I might fall under the immigrant category until Brexit and all the ranting about immigrants and their families tbh.... it's an odd feeling.

[quote WhenAllsSaidandDone]This thread here also addressed this.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/am_i_being_unreasonable/3918717-Expats-or-Immigrants?pg=1[/quote]
Fab, thank you - will make sure I read that.

I know immigrants are people who live permanently in a country different from where they were born/ grew up (I like to differentiate the 'grew up' bit because someone who came here as a baby/toddler and has lived here all his/her life knows no other country but here, so s/he may technically be an immigrant but wouldn't call him/her that. The parents are).

I also agree the word can be used by many to 'other' people.

Oh and I didn't mean to add that link to shut this one down....it was in response to some posters mentioning a thread where it was addressed. There could be others but this is the one I know.

I have been known to use it applied to myself with a sense of irony having been raised in London but now live in a very small, rural town in the shires.

More seriously I think of an immigrant as someone who is living in a country other than the one in which they were born. I don’t think of it as a negative term, (having taught many migrant children quite the opposite!)

Someone who was born in Britain is British, but may belong to one or more of a diverse range of ethnicities.

“Someone who was born in Britain is British, but may belong to one or more of a diverse range of ethnicities.” This isn’t correct. Someone born in Britain before 1984 is British, or born to British parents elsewhere. Someone born in say England of non British parents after 1984 is not British, unless they apply to be so and fulfil the criteria like any other immigrant. Someone born to, say, English parents, outside of the UK is British but not English.....

someone born elsewhere who then moved permanently to the UK (or the country concerned)

like both my grandfathers.

Technically I'm an immigrant, having been born to non-British parents outside the UK. My parents did not move to the UK in one go, they flitted back and forth between countries for several years, living and working in both, paying taxes in both, registered for health care in both, sometimes owning/renting in both, before finally settling in England. My siblings and I were born in 3 different countries, including England, and we all consider ourselves second generation immigrants.

I often describe myself as 'British, not English'. I have a dual cultural heritage. I do not think of an immigrant as an outsider, because I do not think of myself as an outsider.

For me it simply means someone living in another country. It seems to have become a derogatory term though. I say that as the child of immigrants.

I like Henning Wehns rejection of being called an immigrant as to be an immigrant means moving somewhere better ...

Both of my parents were born overseas and moved to the UK after getting married, so I would classify them as immigrants. My siblings and I were all born here, so I wouldn't classify us as immigrants, although we call it 'first generation British' than 'children of immigrants'.
It does get a bit hazy when one is born here and a spouse is born overseas. My husband is not British born and only just obtained his passport, although he has not got his citizenship yet. Our children were born here and both have British passports. I suppose they can say that they are a child of an immigrant but it's only half true.
I agree with the comment PP made about the word immigrant/immigration - it has become less about something that you do, and become more about who you are. It can easily be used to put people into a stereotypical box. If I say my DF is an accountant, nothing is thought of it. But if I follow that up with saying that he immigrated here, suddenly it becomes a case of 'people stealing jobs.'
I hope that makes sense.

My grandparents were Italian immigrants, therefore I dont associate the word immigrant with a particular colour. They are people that move to another county.

I mean country !!

Foreigner - someone who comes from one country and lives permanently in another country.

Dictionary definition. Unsure how it could mean anything else to anyone.

It means someone who moved here with the intention of living here, probably permanently but not necessarily, not someone visiting or staying for a short time (for a short-term job or uni). I'm an immigrant (moved to the UK to settle here permanently with dh).

But in my experience, when (British) people use the term 'immigrant' what they often mean is non-white or Eastern European people who obviously look and sound non-British. They may have moved here themselves or they may have been born to true immigrants but still come from a perceived 'immigrant' (or outsider) family.

I often have people rant at me about 'all the immigrants moving here...' knowing full well that I'm not British and that I'm technically an immigrant myself. But what they mean are non-white people or people who speak funny languages who they find more threatening than they do English speaking white professional me.

I suspect what the person in this case meant was being from an immigrant family, where even if you are born in the UK, you are still visually and culturally perceived as different enough that you are in some sort of limbo between being an immigrant and being British. That makes a lot of sense if you think about some of the narratives around Brexit and UKIP, etc.

It means someone who moved here with the intention of living here, probably permanently

I immigrated to the UK accidentally, was only supposed to be a 6m sojourn. I've know a few others like that. I don't think us accidental immigrants are that uncommon, actually.

I often have people rant at me about 'all the immigrants moving here...' knowing full well that I'm not British and that I'm technically an immigrant myself.

I've had the same, only because I couldn't be more white, they don't realise I might not agree. Which I find doubly insulting. Not only the undisguised racism, but the assumption that because I am white, I would automatically agree.

And one of the lesser spoken issues is how immigrants themselves (and their descendants) can be incredibly racist. l.

I've asked this question.

My children were born in the UK. We moved to the US when they were 6, 4 and 2. Are they immigrants? Certainly my 6 year old went through a period of adapting to a different schooling system and feeling like an outsider. Now they feel like Americans.

If they moved back to the UK as adults would they be immigrants there?

Neither DH or I were born in either the UK or the US, just to complicate matters.

DH cannot move back to the country where he was born - it's too unsafe - but for a long time he also couldn't get British citizenship despite having a British mother. He struggles to say which country he is 'from', so in a way he's an immigrant wherever he goes. He now has 3 nationalities and 3 passports, and he may get a 4th eventually through his marriage to me.

A person who moves here from another country. If a person's parents were immigrants I would not refer to them as an immigrant if they were born here.

To me it is someone who has moved for an indefinite period or permanently, from their primary country of residence and citizenship. An expat would be someone living and working in another country solely because of a job that brought them there.

The British Ambassador in Portugal is an expat to me, whereas I am an immigrant here in Portugal.

It’s not just about place of birth. Lots of U.K. citizens my age and older were born in British Forces hospitals abroad but of course they were U.K. citizens.