Will I be able to return this (£££ item) as not fit for purpose? I'm so upset...

[CatONineTails]

I run a small business and have been saving for some time for a piece of machinery (that costs 4 figures) and is meant to be The Best at what I do. I am not new to this sort of machine, having used cheaper versions for the last decade, but this represents a significant upgrade in quality, ease of use, and functionality.

I bought one last week after emailing various companies that supply it. I went with the company whose engineer/technician I exchanged several emails with and seemed very knowledgeable and prompt with replies and information. They offered a good after sales service, telling me to contact them and they would help me with any issues.

The machine arrived last Wednesday, I set it up, had a fiddle and some testing and then started to make one of the items I sell. It started off well but when it came to the last few steps it was a disaster. Came out damaged and unsaleable. I spent the whole of the next day making test runs, changing settings etc. I emailed the supplier immediately to show photos of the problem and ask for their advice (which they had said they would be more than happy to give). They didn't reply!

I've joined forums and Facebook groups for users of the machine (or others in the same brand) and found several people with the same issues, and got various tips that have helped a little but nowhere near solved the problem. I've been suggested to try various different attachments, 2 of which I have bought and tried and have not helped, the 3rd one is nearly £100 and I'm loathe to spend more money just yet. Especially when this machine is meant to "just work" and makes claims that IMO it isn't living up to

I've now spent days fiddling and trying to get results similar to what I know is achievable with my much more basic older version. No joy. I cannot sell the items this new machine is making, my customers would be returning them as nowhere near my usually quality of work 😓

I emailed the company again yesterday to say I was still having the same problems and could someone please contact me.

But if they don't reply fast and with some advice that actually helps, will I be able to return it as unfit for purpose? I don't know if it is faulty or not, because it does some steps of the job I bought it for perfectly but then completely buggers up others. But it is certainly unfit for my purposes unless the supplier is able to troubleshoot for me.

I'm so upset at the thought of wasting this money on something that I cannot use!

@wowfudge if the products it is designed to produce come out damaged and unsaleable then the machine is faulty - whether by design or technical malfunction - it comes to the same thing for the buyer.

From the manufacturers perspective if it is actually faulty they should replace, if it’s just crap they need to refund the OP.

If they’re difficult PayPal is another layer of protection. It should come under ‘significantly not as described’.

But IMO a £1k+ machine should not need a £100 part adding on in order to do what a £200 version of the same machine can just do straight off with no faffing or extra parts needed!

I agree. Don’t buy anything more.

@TatianaBis you're missing the point: in law they are two different things and what the seller can be compelled to do by law if different.

@CatONineTails

The point about Vat was just that when you enter their website, the company ask you to click whether you are a business or private customer - if you click business they show you prices without VAT, and if you click private they show you prices with VAT. I had to choose private as I am not VAT registered and therefore not eligible for the business pricing!

You've misunderstood how VAT works, they will charge VAT registered business exactly the same amount that they charge you but the VAT registered business will reclaim the VAT so effectively the cost is lowere. This is totally normal pricing practice, don't let that could your judgement, it's irrelevant.

Concentrate on the actuall issue.

Firstly the VAT issue, if you were a business buying it you would still pay the company the same amount, there isn't a special business rate it's just a VAT registered business can claim it back.

Secondly does it state anywhere that it can do what you thought it would or have you assumed as it was more expensive that it would be able to?

@wowfudge No I understood your point.

A reputable seller should refund in these circumstances irrespective of the reason why the machine is producing faulty items. If that fails PayPal may help. It’s only if those avenues fail that what the seller can be legally compelled to do comes into play.

I’ve been refunded for goods in similar scenarios.

Well it makes the following claims...

" See for yourself. It really works! Enjoy perfectly balanced results that are no longer a matter of good luck."

"Are you the practical type? If so, the [veryexpensivemachine] will satisfy your every wish. X Y and Z practically combined in one machine"

"The [veryexpensivemachine] will cope admirably with all [materials] including multiple layers, etc, in the same professional manner as other [veryexpensivemachines]" (this last one being my main sticking point as it categorically does not deal admirably with all materials!)

I've redacted some words to avoid identifying the machine but if anyone does decide to try and work it out, please don't mention it on this thread as it would out me to various people who have seen me post about it elsewhere!

Is it a sewing machine?

I would email to say you'll be returning it as it isn't doing what it should.

I think you should post this in legal to get some decent fact based answers

Herman's answers are decent and fact based.

@TatianaBis you are missing the point from a legal pov.

If it's a Pfaff quilting machine I feel your pain. The most expensive
machine I've ever bought and it's horrendously poor..
Absolutely not fit for purpose.

A product should be as described, fit for purpose and of good enough quality. It sounds like you have had a clear email conversation outlining the purpose to which you are putting the product and it is not fit for that purpose, it is also possibly as described. Therefore your are entitled to return it.

Cross post! I won't mention the name. I hope you get sorted.

Does the equipment itself have a 'user forum'? Is there any chance that you are using it incorrectly or have misunderstood a set up instruction? I did that once with something, couldn't understand why I got such rubbish results, but found I'd left out an important (and not explicitly stated in the instructions!) part of the set up.

Can you find other owners of the machine to ask? In case it's a matter of incorrect/incomplete set up rather than the machine itself?

you are missing the point from a legal pov

I understood it perfectly well.