Active discussions

Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Chat

Join the discussion and chat with other Mumsnetters about everyday life, relationships and parenting.

Original poster

What happens next? **Content Warning**

26 replies

Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 12:14

Namechanged.

Teenage DD's dad is due to be released in the next few months. He's in for rape of a teenage girl. At the moment, I'm not to allow any contact between him and DD, it's part of a Court order. However he will apply for contact (or already has) upon his release. DD has conflicted feelings.

Does anyone have any experience of anything similar and know what's likely to happen? TIA.

OP posts:
Elephantonascooter · 27/05/2020 12:16

How old is your DD? I think this will be heavily considered in any decision made my a judge.
It could go either way, but if she's of an age that she can decide what she wants to do then a judge will consider her feelings

Somethingkindaoooo · 27/05/2020 12:16

No experience of it, but can you fight the request?

Original poster
Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 12:21

Thanks for replying Smile

Elephant, she's 14, OP might be a bit vague, just in case any 'real life' people happen to see. So, old enough for feelings to be taken into account for sure.

Something - I have no idea, I've been made aware of the application through a relative of his (or rather DD has and has passed it on to me). So I'm not sure how long these things take or how they work. Confused

OP posts:
steppemum · 27/05/2020 12:24

My friend had this, very similar circumstances.

The original court order banning contact was valid until dd was 16. The order banned him form unsupervised contact and banned him form her school etc.
Once she was 16 it was up to her.
Dad didn't pursue contact though, so the original order wasn't challenged.

Once dd was 16, the mum tried to get the ban on him coming to school etc extended, I can't remember if she was successful. dd was pretty vulnerable at that point (mental health) so she didn't want dad appearing unannounced

Original poster
Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 12:27

steppemum, that's interesting! This Court order is just essentially 'until further notice.' I'm hoping someone will contact me once he makes his application tbh.

OP posts:
VictoriaBun · 27/05/2020 12:28

As far as I'm aware she will not be ' made ' to see him at that age, I believe she has the right to have free thought.

steppemum · 27/05/2020 12:35

they were very much on the mum's side as he had been convicted of rape of a child. They considered dd to be very at risk.
It may be worth asking the court if you would be automaticlaly contacted if an application was made.

steppemum · 27/05/2020 12:37

I should say that there was no suggestion of any issues directly with dd, he had attacked someone outside of the family, but the court was still very wary of contact between him and his teenage daughter

TheGirlWithAPrince · 27/05/2020 12:40

I would leave it up to the courts and your daughter but there is no way i would allow my kids dad to see them if he had raped a teenager unless i had no choice.

Cant think much of his own teenager if he is willing to ruin another childs life like that.

I have no sympathy for them.

Original poster
Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 12:41

We did have shared residence to an extent before this all happened. It was essentially 50/50 before he had a few (unrelated to his conviction) issues which resulted in going back to Court. I imagine this would all be taken into account?

I should probably seek some professional advice as well as this, I just didn't know who to ask really.

He maintains his innocence fwiw. Hmm

OP posts:
Original poster
Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 12:42

@TheGirlWithAPrince neither do I but I suppose it's ultimately not my opinion that matters.

OP posts:
Mooey89 · 27/05/2020 12:46

I really would hope that the court would not grant anything unsupervised, but I think I would get some legal advice. Good luck

poozel · 27/05/2020 12:47

Yes get some legal advice OP.

I'm Scotland but here for a crime like that he will be on conditions when released, most likely not to have contact with anyone under a certain age.

That would be from the criminal case.

In the civil case whilst yes he may have had joint residence, court would look at conviction, post conviction conditions, views of child and status quo. Presumably it's been some time since this happened and no contact has been operating. The courts know as well as we do how difficult it is to get such a conviction, sadly, so it will be forefront in protecting Dd.

I can't foresee a situation here where anything other than postbox contact as a maximum would be allowed, if that.

CaraDune · 27/05/2020 12:49

Presumably (as is standard in these cases - sadly, family experience of this one, I am no-contact with perpetrator on police advice), he will only have served half, maybe two thirds of his sentence and will be out on parole. His parole should have pretty tight conditions on it including (in Scotland, at any rate) an offender management team who should be able to give you some guidance.

In general for normal divorces, a 14 year old would be able to express a preference to see the non-resident parent or not by this age. But these are far from normal circumstances - there is a serious risk of grooming/him exposing her to other sex offenders/him using her to gain access to her friends (in my family's case, the offender used his younger sister to enable him to befriend and gain access to his victim), so in this case her wishes should NOT be taken into account. At 14 she needs protecting from this man.

HIs protestations of innocence are neither here nor there - he was found guilty in a court of law, and this is what any court/statutory body deciding on access arrangements should take into account, not what he says about it.

His protestations of innocence

Original poster
Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 12:55

Thank you poozel and CaraDune.

Given that there has been absolutely no contact between them for a few years (he will only serve half his sentence), it seems crazy to even imagine that things will go back to any sort of pre-conviction 'normal!'

OP posts:
Aknifewith16blades · 27/05/2020 12:59

OP RIghts of Woman might be a good place to start for legal advice rightsofwomen.org.uk/. Possibly also the NSPCC, they have a helpline; there are also charities that support families who have been affected by child sexual abuse (NOT suggesting that your daughter has been directly abused, but I would be concerend that she was at risk) - try mosac.org.uk/.

I'd also push for councilling for your DD. There are also support services for children who have had a parent in prison.

sergeilavrov · 27/05/2020 13:01

Make sure you get a copy of the case, and take it to your solicitor. They will be able to present the fact that he has been indefinitely banned from contacting minors as part of a broader case to prevent custody, if that’s the path you choose. Courts take criminal history, safety of your daughter (and her friends) and your ability to coparent into account.

Another way to approach this is to talk to your daughter about what he has done, and the potential threat he poses to her friends - in gentle terms, she should consider her safety and the safety of her loved ones in terms of her decision. Don’t offer her solutions, just let her design the “ideal” contact. This might be a telephone call, it might be texts, or birthday gifts, or letters sent by way of a PO Box. She can get inventive, as courts have a lot of discretion is setting these terms.

Teacher12345 · 27/05/2020 13:01

Does your DD want to see him? If not I don't think courts will force her at 14.

HaudMaDug · 27/05/2020 13:02

His claims of innocence are outweighed by his inclusion onto the Sex Offenders Register.

Original poster
Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 13:10

DD doesn't know if she wants to or not. :(

OP posts:
sergeilavrov · 27/05/2020 13:11

It’s also okay for your daughter to not know, and say she needs more time to think about it, keeping the status quo in the meantime. A good resource for you might be the Lucy Faithfull Foundation?

Original poster
Mrscastevet · 27/05/2020 13:32

I really appreciate all your replies. I'm pretty certain it won't be a simple case of me questioning whether it's appropriate and him/his family understanding where I'm coming from so it's reassuring to hear that it's not a black and white situation.

OP posts:
CaraDune · 27/05/2020 13:39

Fingers crossed it should not be about whether he and his family are "understanding", it should purely be an issue of what the court decides.

The advice upthread to get a copy of the case and take it to your solicitor is very good. I would also advise contacting the probation service. There will be limits on what they can tell you precisely (because of confidentiality) but they should be able to tell you what conditions are attached to his probation (things like not being allowed to contact minors, not being allowed within a certain distance of schools, that sort of thing). And even with the confidential stuff, there's ways round it - the police officer on my relly's offender management team said "ask him what he's done, then phone me back and tell me what he said - I'll be able to tell you whether he's telling the truth or not."

Also have a long think about what you want as the end situation. Yes, your daughter is feeling confused, doesn't know if she wants contact or not - but actually it should not, at age 14, be her decision (1) because she is still a child and vulnerable to grooming and (2) because the decision is too huge to be loaded onto the shoulders of a child.

If I were you I'd be going for letterbox only, at absolute most a contact centre, but certainly no unsupervised contact/ contact "supervised" by his family (my child is only a few years younger than yours, for reference - certainly of an age where in normal circs their wishes would be taken into account in custody hearings). I'm actually completely no contact (police advice on the grounds of the danger of grooming).

The bottom line here is protecting your child.

slipperywhensparticus · 27/05/2020 13:47

Does she know why he is in prison?

The risk isnt just to her it's her friends too my friends ex husband was convicted pedofile he used his child to gain access to other children pull up on them as the Americans say offer them lifts etc the children would think it's fine because its "x"s dad a trusted adult

He got away with a lot never touched his own child

Fanthorpe · 27/05/2020 13:54

Is there any possibility of your daughter being able to speak to someone who can help her to think it through? Does her school have a counsellor? I’m wondering about her feeling of loyalty to you, and her feelings about her dad, which must be really complicated. Good luck with it, not at all easy for any of you.