What happens if a child repeatedly fails maths GCSE?

[OhArsebags]

Dd did his GCSEs last year. He did ok in most of them - even got level 9 in English and English lit but only got a level 2 in maths. Level 4 is what is needed for a pass (c grade in old money).

Because of the maths, he couldn’t do A levels so had to do a Btec, along with redoing maths GCSE. This year with everything being cocked up it will be graded on his work but the tutor had said that it would likely be a level 2 again.

I honestly doubt he will pass it next year either.

I bought a functional skills level 2 maths course for him to do from home (it’s the equivalent to a C Maths GCSE), but he struggles with this too.

He’s had a maths tutor for the past six years. A few in fact. He just can not grasp it. He’s never been able to right from being a small child. He excelled in English but maths has always been a struggle.

The tutors have been great. It’s really not them or the teaching, Ds just doesn’t get it. I’ve spent thousands on tutors and to be honest, I can’t afford to keep it up.

My Dh (Ds step dad) is an ex maths teacher. He spends an hour a night with Ds on the functional skills course, going though each question/example breaking it down, explaining it to Ds. He just can’t grasp it.

Have looked into discalcular - Ds was given extra time in his maths GCSE but to be honest, he could be given a year to do the paper and he still wouldn’t be able to do it.

He’s at the point now where it’s making him seriously depressed. He’s now saying he doesn’t want to go back to college in September because he can’t face more maths.

It’s a requirement of his course (or any level 3 btec) that he also does maths GCSE along side. He would need it for anything he wanted to do - he wants to pin the police but would need the C in maths.

I honestly don’t know what to do.

Have seen that you said he never mastered timetables OP. That is one of the things that my dyscalculic DS still struggles with.
Can he easily tell the time? Deal with money?
I really think you've been fobbed off by the school/college.
I did post earlier that it was a big struggle for us to get help and I really mean that. You have to be so persistent.
In our experience the majority of maths teachers are not au fait with dyscalculia or how to practically help a pupil, same with tutors. It took us a long time to find a tutor who really knew how to get DS to progress and it was slow going.
Has your DH read up on techniques to teach maths to someone with dyscalculia? There are some good books available on Amazon.
Appreciate your DH is a maths teacher but maybe someone outside the family would be better?

@FoxyBadger Dh was only a maths teacher for a year before he left - didn’t like it so doesn’t know about dyscalcular really. He’s very, very good at maths himself though.

When I say it was looked into it was a tutor years ago who mentioned it. But Ds didn’t seem to meet the criteria. He’s fine with telling the time, managing time, money, reading and interpreting maps and graphs.

He just hates maths. Always has done right from the offset when maths was supposed to be ‘fun’. The more he hated it and resented doing it, the less he did and the more he fell behind and the less he understood. He can’t seem to retain any information on it. If Dh has a breakthrough with him and he gets how to do something, by the time the revisit it the next day it’s like he’s never seen it before.

Now he’s just become so depressed over it that he’s lost it complexity.

His father works in IT and made Ds chose ICT as a GCSE option - he failed that too as he said coding was just more maths like stuff he couldn’t do/remember.

He did scrape the accounting module in his business btec by one point though, so at least he doesn’t have to retake that module. He was shocked at that as there was maths involved!

Sorry to jump in, that sounds far more like cognitive dyspraxia to me. DS3 has it - his English is amazing, his maths is appalling. He can't hold it in his head at all, even number bonds to 10, and does everything from first principles Every. Single. Time. He also panics, which shuts him down faster.

He says for English, he sees everything in his head, but for any kind of number work it's just blank, so nothing ever sticks because there's nothing to hang it on, so to speak. Could that be true for your DS?

I don’t know if this would be helpful but....when I was at uni I had a boyfriend doing a chemistry degree. He’s dropped out of school before the exams- but always been quite in to science. Anyway, he managed to get to to a foundation year for science degree when they asked him if he had maths and English degree he just said yes. They never actually checked. Doing his phd now.

Not degree- gcse, obviously!

Hi op, we’re in a similar situation.
Ds is 17 and in year 12 at a sixth form college doing 3 A levels and maths GCSE.

He got a grade 3 last year and was not close enough for a re-mark. He also got a couple of grade 9’s too but struggled with maths though he was predicted a grade 4.

He re-sat the maths last November and got another grade 3 and was due to do it again this May/June so I’m not sure what happens next.

Ds has Aspergers and anxiety and seems to be struggling with the lack of routine and seeing his friends. His college is 45 minutes away on a bus but it’s the one he really wanted to go to, there’s one a 10 minute walk away but he wouldn’t even look at it.

I have spoken to him about maybe starting year 12 again but he doesn’t like the idea of that. It just seems like he needs a fresh start and maybe to try a bit harder with his maths, unlike your son who has actually worked really hard.

It’s a tough one isn’t it when they are bright but struggle with one subject that is so important when looking at future courses/careers.

I’m going to contact his college after half term and see what the options are. I also didnt realise he was struggling so much with 2 of his 3 A levels. The work they are set is relentless and he’s behind.

Very best of luck

The inability to retain learning and the problem with timetables are traits of dyscalculia. It might be that he has a milder form than some.
I would still personally get him properly tested.
The thing with dyscalculia is that going over and over the same topics in a "standard" way will never work and can lead to frustration.
Like dyslexia, you need to find a way of learning that works for your DS. Colours can be really important and very clear layout of pages, eg one question only on a page, hence a reader for exams can be a big advantage.

@JigoloHarMegiddo that’s really interesting. Ds loves history and politics, the things he retains and remembers, facts etc. But he cannot remember anything to do with numbers.

I am upset for you and your son. His dad's response is totally inappropriate and obviously unhelpful to everyone.

It sounds like your son is desperate to join the police force, but perhaps a break, doing work experience, or volunteering, or starting an entry level job, would be helpful? He might just need some headspace and a total break from studying and maths tutoring.

After a real rest, he might want to go back to studying, or he might decide going straight into the workforce is the way to go. If he can improve his maths great but, when he's up to it, perhaps it's worth considering and exploring other career options...it's hard when you're a teen to take a long-term view of anything, but most people will now have several different careers (not just jobs, but total career changes) throughout their life. Are there any options he would be happy to start out in, and perhaps transfer to the police later, if that's a possibility? (What is your local station like? Can you ring them and ask if you and your son can talk to an officer about ways into the police force and what the entry exam - which I believe has an English and maths component - is really like?)

From the sounds of it, your son's career advisors haven't been particularly helpful. There are apprenticeships available in loads of different sectors, not just in manual labour / vocational roles. More info can be found here:

www.findapprenticeship.service.gov.uk/apprenticeshipsearch?searchMode=Category

I wish him the best of luck.

My DS3 is the same. Facts about Anglo-Saxon kings? Name your period (and he remembers dates too, because they're hung on "English hooks" as it were). 3+8? Total panic and using his fingers.

My DS3 is only 10, and we could see something was wrong, as he simply didn't deal with numbers in the same way as his siblings. It's like they slide away from him when he looks directly at them. He can reliably tell the time, but money is very slow indeed. He is already afraid he will never function as an independent adult 😢.

If you could approach the problem as dyspraxia, you might find a different set of routes that suit? We had to pay for a private assessment, and I know you've said there's no money left. But might there be grounds for an Education Authority EHCP assessment while he's still under 25, if you can show the maths is going wrong year on year on year?

Sending strength. This is tough.

I would get your DH to read Mathematical Mindsets by Jo Boaler.
And maybe get DS to read 'around' maths - Alex Bellos is always a good start.
Maths is so much more than timestables and if he can do well in graphs then there is hope.
He has 6 months till the Nov resit - if he applies himself to exam practice little and often repeating questions and analysing mistakes - especially the meaty 6 marks - it is achievable- he got a 9 in English so he is obviously intelligent. And as I say to my students- those that fail repeatedly and then pass have learned a hell of a lot more from their studies than those who pass first time with seemingly no effort. Resilience and determination go a long way.

Probably not hugely helpful but dd was terrible at maths and scraped a C by 1 point. She now does maths as part of her degree (healthcare related) and quite enjoys it

A couple of things about your problem relate to me. Personally, I was an English whizz kid and passed GCSE aged nine with a grade C. I was useless at maths and didn't even turn up to my GCSE maths exam. I got a job in a drawing office aged 16 and worked for a few years, had a child in between, then as a mature student with one A level I studied at night classes after work, I took three years out to do a degree in Criminology. I got a first, then did an online Masters. My work experience led me to become an accountant, even without maths GCSE. My own son, now 18, was in a similar position regarding college courses and struggling with apprenticeship options, he wasn't cut out for education and even considered the Navy. He was totally lost in terms of what to do with his life. However he decided to get a job, and he has saved up and just bought his own car. I told him there is far too much pressure on kids to know exactly what they are going to do straight from school, I had no career plan either, and he had years and years in front of him to work out his life plan, so he shouldn't be too hard on himself or too despondent about not being at college.
Apologies for waffling on however! Can your son get a part time job and become a PCSO then after proving himself that way, apply for the main police force? Good references and a proven track record will compensate for one poor GCSE grade. I hope he finds his way in life, I feel for him, but there is plenty of time to figure it all out. Good luck to both of you x

@Kitikat1979 Thank you for that.

The problem at the moment is he’s so down that he doesn’t want to work either. I tried talking to him last night and he’s totally shut down.

His dad doesn’t help things. He’s already got him down as a failure and leaving education would send him over the edge. He’s already applying so much pressure to Ds over university - Ds is going to uni. He’s never wanted to and to be honest, he wouldn’t work hard enough he’s very lazy (even though he did put in the work for home for the maths GCSE but left to his own devices, he wouldn’t have done it).

I was up from 2am worrying about him. I’m just at a loss. He now just doesn’t want to do anything.

*ds isn’t going to uni, that should have read.

I know he has years ahead of him, but his dad hit the roof when he was taking about changing courses, said he was wasting his life if he did an extra year - although that was mainly because he thought he would have to pay another year of maintenance of Ds did n extra year of full time education. He was better about it when I said not to bother.

I'm a total math's failure and mentally shut down and go into panic mode if required to do simple math's on the spot. Unable to hold concepts or tables all my lifetime and have never got past simple division and very basic fractions. (Also struggle with spelling and editing)
I still remember the point at six when chanting tables daily had allowed all but me to put their hands up as to what seven fours where. I just had no idea. I still don't. (though I now know it will be the same as four sevens, and I can quickly get that answer - but not seven fours!)
Something's clearly wrong, but I just got written off as stupid and brought into it. If I can't do what everyone else can, then so what if there are other things I can do that they can't? It's been such a waste of any actual talents I might have and has had major impact on my life.
(one dc also can't hold tables, - the rest can)

I'm afraid regardless of what underlies things, I suspect your dp is actually now part of your ds's problem, and whatever's going on with his dad and the wasting your life to do an extra years study- and money worries, sunk money 'wasted' etc- I don't blame ds for having had enough. There's so much focus on his 'failure' and need to overcome it, yet it's such a small piece of him as a whole, surely?

I totally understand why you've tried to do anything you can for him to 'cure' his problem, but the biggest issue your ds faces, isn't his poor maths grasp, it's the rigid systems and responses he's getting that will damage his future if something other than focusing on what he can't do doesn't stop. He sounds like he desperately needs time out from repeating failure, and focus on more of what he's good at.

There's a point at which we need to question our focus on educating people based on what they're bad at, not what they're good at, surely?
Not all of us are all-rounders.

Don't know if any of this is any use:
My strategy for tables is I taught myself tables outcomes ie 7,14,21,28, to a tune. I'm able to retain them as words to a tune. I can sing them in my head fast and simultaneously use my fingers for where I've got to. I know things like 5x5 =25 but if you ask me what 6x5 is I have to work it out. I'm actually not stupid, though it's taken me a lifetime to believe that could be possible.
(Decades on I'm beginning to recognize if two 7's = 14, then four will be 28.)
It's not ideal but it allows me to function.

I've started doing countdown with a calculator and a pause button and am seeing different ways of getting an answer, but if you'd told me I'd ever want to spend any time to try and do this I wouldn't have believed you .

Re the joining police: one route that might by-pass lack of GCSE maths is becoming a special and joining up from there.
Two of dc's friends went down that route. One went into the force from it, the other was rejected for specials as not ready. Joined up the normal way the following year and is now seconded to a specialism and is a high flyer.
recruit.college.police.uk/Special/Pages/default.aspx

I feel sorry for him. I was exactly the same As in English and English lit, passed every other subject including Science but maths, no chance I just cannot grasp even basic maths. If I had to to pass maths to do A levels back then I’d still be there now.

I would definitely look at getting him formally assessed as that may open more options for other support.

Dc has just asked friend about if there's math's in the application test for specials.
There's some basic situation fractions - but it's the sort of basic logical stuff I'm able to do if I think it through. Also confirmed that a special who shines as good material, can be accepted into training college to join up normally, without standard qualifications.

(Not suggesting this is what he should necessarily be aiming at, just trying to give hope that there are always other ways of achieving things.)