Do other countries bitch relentlessly about their governments?

[Sodamncold]

Listening to radio. On and on the callers come on and complain about how the government has messed up.

All over mumsnet - posters complaining and whinging about Boris etc

For what it’s worth - I think the gov has done a good job overall. Yes there’s been mistakes but I don’t expect perfection. I think that many don’t realise how lucky they are to live in this country.

So curious as to what’s going on in other countries?

For what it’s worth - I think the gov has done a good job overall.

Could you please explain why you think this when the UK’s coronavirus deaths per million rate (518) is five times higher than that of Germany (96), a directly comparable country? Source : Statista.

If this is your definition of ‘a good job’, what would be your definition of failure?

I find it interesting that any criticism levelled at the government is written off as 'bitching' and 'whining' from certain quarters.

There is no avoiding the fact that our government not only made mistakes in the handling of this crisis, but their entire idiological attack on our public services over the last decade has left us in the worst possible shape to handle the pandemic and the inevitable economic nosedive afterwards. Trying to stop them from just whitewashing over it and holding them to account is vital if we want to keep even the pretence of a democracy.

Our government are not alone in their piss poor handling, other countries have suffered tremendously too, but rather than acknowledge that things could have been done better they are lying to cover their arses and with few exceptions the media are allowing them to do it unchallenged.

When did we the British public become so inoculated to lies and deception that we are not only rolling over and allowing them to keep ruining us, but praising them and declaring that they are 'doing their best'?
If the opposition aren't fit for purpose either why are we not up in arms about that too, rather than using it as an excuse to defend the indefensible?

@agelikewine

Your question wasn’t directed to me and I’ve not looked into it too deeply but some of the factors I wold image would influence spread and therefore likely death rate (but I haven’t seen any press articles seem to use these, so I my be completely wrong and they have already been investigated/ruled out)

Germany is around 1.5 times bigger than uk in terms of land, so people are more spread out there do able to restrict spread better

London has a population of 9million, compared to Berlin’s 4million, so as per above

Uk higher obesity rate than Germany so therefore possibly more chance of the underlying conditions

Uk potentially higher BAME split? Although not got stats to back up

Also would imagine UK population more likely to travel for pleasure/business so opens up likelihood of bringing in the virus but again completely speculative.

I am not a scientist obviously but would have thought someone would have checked out the above and whether they are likely to have affected the difference.

That being said, I do think we were too slow to act in the first place.

There's been an awful lot of Russian doctors accidentally falling out of windows if they talk publicly.

Germany has a population roughly 20 million higher than ours. I can't speak to population density though, I don't know enough about Germany. But I know my county is doing badly, most especially in the two major towns and the villages between them.

They also have a much better resourced health service.

Is Boris Johnson missing 5 emergency meetings 'doing his best'?

Urgh you sound insufferable op. It's just really sad you feel the gov have not been a fucking shit show on this. Then you have to complain about people holding them to account. I genuinely pity you if this is all you expect off your gov.

What have they done well in this situation op? I'm interested to hear your analysis.

Bitch relentlessly??

I call it hold to account.

Here's my take on your thread title

'Do other countries call their PM by their first name, like they are on friendly terms?'

I wonder if the Germans refer to Merkel as just Angela, or maybe they have a bit more sense?

The CMO isn't a political appointment so I'm not sure how any government would have been able to take a different stance on what to do when advised by him? Would they have got differing advice from an independent body and risked not listening to him?

From my experience with lots of family and friends abroad yes. Their media I’m not so sure but the media attacking government policy is a good thing (political satire has long been used to do this and we have a history that)

I read somewhere New Zealand is becoming the new Sweden (a country upheld as doing no wrong and erm slightly smug)

But our government haven’t handled it well I think if anything they were trying to appease the public and business leaders too much and it’s backfired

Many countries have very corrupt governments Italians are certainly vocal about not trusting their governments

Anthony Blair was the one who started the friendly first name terms with call me Tony

I’m sure Bill Clinton was referred to just as Bill much of the time

Isn’t the CMO an adviser and the government takes its own actions on the basis of how it interprets the advice? Plus with extra professional advice from such lovely types as Dominic Cummings.

I'm curious about Chief Medical Officers - are they chosen by the sitting government, or are the same people in the post for a given time regardless? I only ask because although mistakes have undoubtedly been made, would another party be given the same advice by the same people and therefore taken the same steps at the same time?

The CMO isn't a political appointment so I'm not sure how any government would have been able to take a different stance on what to do when advised by him? Would they have got differing advice from an independent body and risked not listening to him?

The CMO is a political appointment.the current one was appointed by Boris Johnson in October 2019. Same as for the CSO.

For what it’s worth - I think the gov has done a good job overall. Yes there’s been mistakes but I don’t expect perfection

You set the bar pretty low. Mixed messages, giving the contracts for PPE to their mates, Boris not attending the first 5 cobra meetings, shaking hands with doctors in contact with covid. Letting 33 London bus drivers die without proper ppe for transport workers or nurses. Letting airport traffic though without any checks! Come on OP!

Could any leader in New Zealand possibly have failed to get this under control?

LOL. Should have been there for a state of national emergency (not global pandemic) under the previous government, with the Canterbury quakes- the Kiwi version of the Tories. Talk about a corrupt show of shit.

If this Government were to try a unique (to them) approach of assuming that most citizens were at least as intelligent as the average bear, being open, honest, and transparent, and actually ensuring they're all singing from the same hymn sheet before exhorting citizens to trust them, we're all in this together, and we're following the science, so just do as we tell you to do, that might help.

Honestly, the absolute farce of 'so what do the loosened lockdown rules mean under 'stay alert' was ridiculous, with the PM and one of his most senior ministers both saying it was perfectly obvious what it meant, and then each firmly and confidently stating that it meant something quite different was embarrassing.

@ssd

We refer to our President's by their last name:

Washington, Lincoln, Nixon, Carter, Bush, Clinton, Obama, Trump

We had JFK, LBJ, W

I do find it odd that the British do too because you refer to May, Blair, Cameron but Boris is the exception. Hmm...

🙌 with you OP - it's literally the most pointless debate I've ever had to read and listen to - and I haven't watched the news in over a year now - I saw this on Twitter earlier...

And New Zealand may have handled this well (advantaged as they were by their geographical situation, as well as Ardern), but 'smug' does not sit well with our appalling statistics when it comes to child abuse and murder, domestic violence, obesity, and increasingly poor performance in education when compared on an international level, eg, PISA.

Luke Johnson on QT the other night said that less than 400 people under the age of 65 have died from Covid and that more people drowned last year. The blaming is hateful, it's not holding anyone to account - we've done our best during an unknown (possibly man made as there are NO other viruses like it) pandemic, with a WORLDWIDE shortage of ppe and a WORLDWIDE virus.

I am in contact with a lot of colleagues and family from many countries: Netherlands, India, Philippines, Australia, ROI, Hungary, Poland, Italy, New York mostly, but a few others.

Mostly they don't bitch about their governments, they realise they are doing their best in difficult circumstances. In New York they dont like to talk about it, I think they are embarrassed about trump but have confidence in their local governor.

Colleagues from other countries do comment on Boris, and Trumps, mishandling of the whole crisis. They are both international embarrassments.

Don't you think people should question their government decisions and hold them to account OP?

@mbosnz
is that right? 🤦🏼‍♀️

It's a good thing to hold Governments to account and speak truth to power.

I am sure that people would be complaining of Labour were in power at the moment.

"hold them to account" is totally different to the bitching that the OP is referring to - non-stop ranting without any kind of constructive criticism is very different.