So farting cows weren’t the problem after all...

[Sadie789]

It was people.

It has always bothered me when people claim to be vegans for “environmental reasons” as the implication is that meat eaters are out to destroy the earth by remaining true to their carnivorous origins.

When I suspect the real reason many people are vegan is that they are following a fad and like to feel superior to their fellow dumb animals.

But we now have very clear evidence that farting cows and food production in general is not the main contributor to pollution. Cows are still out there farting away. Food production is arguably higher than ever given all there is for people to do now is eat.

It’s since the humans were kept indoors that the air has cleared.

How do vegans rationalise what most non-vegans knew all along? That it’s human traffic - including vegans - causing the problem.

What evidence?

Emissions are only down by a few percent. Our carbon emissions are made up of lots of different things - agriculture, energy production, travel. Nobody ever said all the emissions came from cows, it’s about 15%.

We can all tell ourselves what we like but it’s a fact that it would be better for the planet if we produced less beef.

Thanks for making me smile with the thread title!

Why do you seem to see vegans as your enemy? Most vegans aren't doing it to be superior. They genuinely don't want to eat animal products. Maybe work on the (vegan) chip on your shoulder...

Most aspects of our lives have an environmental impact. Making one change can reduce that, making two changes can reduce it further and so on. Eating meat or not is decision people make like transport they take to work. For myself, I don't judge people and hope that people don't judge me. But it all boils down to maths at the end of the day.

Anyway cows releasing methane is nothing to do with pollution, but greenhouse gases. I think you maybe getting mixed up.

Traffic (emissions from vehicles) release nitrogen oxides, sulfur oxides and carbon particulates - those are "pollution". They also release carbon dioxide, which is greenhouse gas, and not involved in any effects of "pollution".

Cows farting is not the only issue, although as app said, their farts don't contribute to pollution. Meat production uses considerably more resources in terms of land, energy and water than a vegan diet.

A lot of the problem isn't cows / eating them, its how they are raised. A lot of animals are raised on cereals so they reach a saleable weight faster. The land on which those cereals are grown would be better devoted to crops to directly feed humans. Cows would be better off growing slower on grass (on land unfit for growing crops).

Source: the river cottage meat book. Hugh fearnley whittingstall.

You're right ruby I wish more people understood that. A grain fed steak is worse for the environment than locally grown vegetables or grains. Where problems come in is when people start to think a lamb chop reared in the UK on grass that can't sustain crops is more environmentally unfriendly than a soy based product intensively farmed and flown around the world because it can't be grown in the UK.
Animal Agriculture has its problems but so does arable agriculture. I think we need to focus more on local and seasonal

How do vegans rationalise what most non-vegans knew all along?

I don't think most non-vegans knew any more than the average vegan about it.

Genuine question here. What is it about veganism that people find so annoying? Am not vegan so have no skin in the game.

Absolutely @outoftheforest. Also we need to eat less meat, but ensure it is of higher quality.

It's a good question gilbert I really don't get the hatred and I say that as someone who works directly with animal agriculture. I wish these things could be debated sensibly but it almost always turns into a slandering session.
I do however think alot of that comes from a very small minority of vegans who make a hell of alot of noise about it. I find nobody likes to be preached to whether it be about veganism, religion etc.

But it's not cows farting, is it, it's the entire production process –growing feed for cows to eat so we can kill them and eat them is staggeringly inefficient.

Raising livestock for meat, eggs and milk is responsible for more greenhouse gases than all the world's transport systems combined (it accounts for 14.5%). It's a leading cause of deforestation (bye Amazon! We need more room for cattle!), loss of biodiversity and water pollution.

People haven't chosen to stop travelling, they've been forced to, and it's caused a drop in pollution significant enough that lots of people are thinking about how they'll change their behaviour in the future.

If we were all forced to go vegan for a few months, perhaps it would lead to similar changes in behaviour once people realise that change is possible.

It's widely accepted that a heavy meat-based diet is choking the Earth (along with the extraction industry, business travel, etc etc). How do you rationalise going against what most of the world has known for a while?

Nb. I'm not a vegan, but your argument doesn't make any sense.

@Sadie789
Do you start threads just to goad ppl?
You’ve had threads hating Nicola Sturgeon, now vegans, how under 5s have suffered in lockdown, what next?
You come across as very limited in your outlook on life, it’s not pleasant.

Possibly the most badly thought out ‘argument’ I’ve read in a long time. Your position OP is completely without merit. I think that might be the point though.

I do however think alot of that comes from a very small minority of vegans who make a hell of alot of noise about it.

This. My sister is vegan and she is the worst load, shouty, preachy, judgy sort of vegan that you see making a scene about soya milk in public. But that is the sort of person she is. Sadly, it has really put me off veganism (although I've been veggie for over 30 years) even though logic tells me it her personality, not veganism that is the issue. But one encounter with someone like her and all your vegan stereotypes would be confirmed.

@JKScot4 do you hunt down my posts simply to have a go at me because we have differing opinions.

Get a life.

I think you need to show your working OP. You’ve gone from “flying and driving less reduces emissions from flying and driving” to “methane emissions from cattle isn’t a problem QED” without an intermediate step.

In other news, bans on CFCs have reduced the hole in the ozone layer therefore I can go back to using leaded petrol.

I cannot help myself... Cows hardly fart, they belch . Don't know where the farting came from, but they don't.

I won’t attempt to go into it since your post is clearly only meant to be a whinge about vegans as opposed to a constructive point, but if you genuinely want to know why being vegan is beneficial to the environment there is a myriad of research/evidence out there for you to pursue. I would also recommend exploring why you find vegans so offensive/threatening

A lot of the UK is unsuitable for growing crops, or anything except grass. Meat raised on salt marshes and uplands is not taking the place of crops for human consumption.

Zero grazed animals fed on cereals is a different situation, and is more of a feature of Dairy farming, not meat production.

Minimising food miles is better for than the environment than being vegan...

Where’s the evidence for this please?

@Sadie789 erm... every single thing we do has an impact. It's about weighing up the consequences. I have never ever met a judgemental vegan but I have met lots of people who seem happy to insist that vegans claim to be superior.

Also, it's just what people chose to eat. Get a grip.

PS: what @JKScot4 did is perfectly normal. It's a feature of the site. When people continuously start goady threads, it makes it especially easy for us to spot the ones who are trying to cause the virtual bunfight. It's also how we spot the ones who need support, give good advice and so on.

I think you should go and make yourself a cup of tea to go with this biscuit, and have a little reflection on your behaviour...