Coronavirus: Use common sense to see loved-ones outdoors – Dominic Raab

[PurplePonderer]

This headline is from the BBC - so can we now meet up with family in gardens for example? Obviously while keeping 2 metres apart. It specifies parks in the news story but I can’t see any difference. Am I being too optimistic here? Sorry if someone has already asked this.

@Huge I couldn’t agree more. I despair that people can’t think for themselves and need to be spoon fed every small detail.
Before going anywhere, surely you just ask yourself if you will be able to maintain a social distance, not touch anything and protect yourself as much as possible.
Where is the common sense or logic?!
People asking if they can go and see their mum - again, apply some of your own common sense here! If she lives round the corner and you can stand at the end of her drive and have a chat without blocking the path for anyone walking, that makes logical, reasonable sense.
If it involves you getting a car to drive somewhere then no.

I have common sense and scientific understanding. I am/would have been more than happy to meet up with people outside and from a distance since this began.

But I haven’t as it was against the rules. I don’t particularly care about the rules but I do care about setting a decent example for others who may not have the same level of understanding. I also, rightly or wrongly don’t want to be perceived as someone who is selfish and uncaring about other people.

I am so frustrated by this shitshow.

The government trailed Boris Johnson's statement for a WEEK. We have all been waiting for it. What on earth have they been doing with that time?

Boris Johnson made various statements last night. Dominic Raab went on the radio and TV this morning and did not know, he literally did not know, the extent to which people and workers were now allowed to do really key things.

This is indefensible. These were obvious questions. Why make a heavily trailed speech on Sunday night, but need another day to produce the detailed guidance? Why not have them both ready to go at the same time? Why not have senior ministers fully briefed on any changes? Why do this to everyone? Why add to all the speculation and upset, and people calling each other stupid for not understanding changes that the HOME SECRETARY doesn't even understand.

And I understand the whole common sense thing, I get it. But actually, common sense doesn't cover it. The legislation is what the legislation is. The law does not allow you to leave your home without reasonable excuse, which may include exercise. meeting a family member is not included. Now, we might assume, that the 'reasonable excuse' will include meeting a family member in a park. But the legislation prohibits gatherings of more than 2 people outside of your own household. So if you are single parent, can you bring your child whit you to meet your mum in the park? This is a reasonable question, because until they change the regs, this is surely technically still against the law? So common sense can only get you so far.

They could have avoided all of this by having their '50 page document' ready last night. Its all totally ridiculous.

Actually, Dominic Raab is foreign secretary isn't he, sorry, not Home secretary. But anyway - point still stands!

I think the whole ‘meeting your mum in the park’ confusion could really largely be avoided as such a problem if people just largely engaged their brains and didn’t meet anyone In the park.
There’s really no need at all for anyone to start doing this when they’ve gone so long without doing it.
For people asking “but how long can we go without seeing our parents?” - the answer is we can and will go on indefinitely, until the risk is so low it’s negligible. Well, we certainly will be doing so anyway.

But the risk of meeting your mum in the park (or any other open space-where are all these bloody parks?!) is already negligible

Too many largelys there
But basically, just because there’s some exemptions from what we have been advised to do over the last couple of months, it doesn’t mean you have to start exercising for 10 hours a day and sitting having a picnic in the park.
It’s not wise to do that. I think people should really understand what is and isn’t sensible.

@Wannabeeme yes it is, until 600 other people decide they must use their right to visit their mums in the same park

Well yes, but anyone with ‘common sense’ won’t go to a busy park. They’ll go to their mum’s garden, or if that’s too close to others or they can’t trust themselves not to touch anything, then a golf course, a wood, a playing field...

Tbh the quality of a 2 metre distanced conversation with one other person isn’t much different to a phone call or face time so probably not worth it.
I

@TheChosenTwo

"I think the whole ‘meeting your mum in the park’ confusion could really largely be avoided as such a problem if people just largely engaged their brains and didn’t meet anyone In the park.
There’s really no need at all for anyone to start doing this when they’ve gone so long without doing it."

I pretty much agree with you here. But this shouldn't be left to 'common sense' because as we have seen, many people have lots of different views about what counts as common sense. Which is why we have laws. So that there is a bottom line.

I personally think that there probably shouldnt have been any movement on seeing family members etc at this stage. The rates aren't low enough, the grey areas to large and the risks too great. Talk to people like adults, say you wish it could be different but this is what we have to do.

But seeing as they have made this statement about meeting in parks , the very least they could do is be very clear abut it, and explain whether there will be legislative changes to back it up.

From the new guidance document:

Public spaces

SAGE advise that the risk of infection outside is significantly lower than inside, so the Government is updating the rules so that, as well as exercise, people can now also spend time outdoors subject to: not meeting up with any more than one person from outside your household; continued compliance with social distancing guidelines to remain two metres (6ft) away from people outside your household; good hand hygiene, particularly with respect to shared surfaces; and those responsible for public places being able to put appropriate measures in place to follow the new COVID-19 Secure guidance.

People may exercise outside as many times each day as they wish. For example, this would include angling and tennis. You will still not be able to use areas like playgrounds, outdoor gyms or ticketed outdoor leisure venues, where there is a higher risk of close contact and touching surfaces. You can only exercise with up to one person from outside your household – this means you should not play team sports, except with members of your own household.

People may drive to outdoor open spaces irrespective of distance, so long as they respect social distancing guidance while they are there, because this does not involve contact with people outside your household.

When travelling to outdoor spaces, it is important that people respect the rules in Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland and do not travel to different parts of the UK where it would be inconsistent with guidance or regulations issued by the relevant devolved administration.
These measures may come with some risk; it is important that everyone continues to act responsibly, as the large majority have done to date. The infection rate will increase if people begin
to break these rules and, for example, mix in groups in parks, which will trigger the need for further restrictions.

What blue said in each of her/his posts.

If the gov't itself is clear on what is/isn't allowed, it should have said so - coherently. I suspect that they themselves don't know (or are allowing ambiguity because it suits them), and this woolly mess is the consequence of that.

See, I think this is still unclear.

"people can now also spend time outdoors subject to: not meeting up with any more than one person from outside your household".

Does this mean one individual can spend time outdoors with one individual from another household? Or does it mean that one household can meet up with one individual from outside their household?

While I do appreciate that I am being pedantic, I also think that most people want to do the right thing, and to minimise the risk as best they can. People will treat this as the government saying it is 'safe enough' to do various things. So it should be really clear. If it is only one on one, fair enough, but that it more problematic for people with sole caring responsibilities.

Also the 'Enforcement' section says:

Enforcement
"The Government is examining more stringent enforcement measures for non-compliance, as it has seen in many other countries. The Government will impose higher fines to reflect the increased risk
to others of breaking the rules as people are returning to work and school. The Government will seek to make clearer to the public what is and is not allowed."

So it is important to know if you can take your kids to see your sister (in a socially distanced way), because their may be legal consequences, as well as health consequences.

Honestly, I'd be really surprised if people got a) caught and b) fined for taking their kids to see their local grandparents in a private garden. Larger gatherings in open spaces yes.

There’s really no need at all for anyone to start doing this when they’ve gone so long without doing it. For people asking “but how long can we go without seeing our parents?” - the answer is we can and will go on indefinitely, until the risk is so low it’s negligible. Well, we certainly will be doing so anyway.

You might be able to go indefinitely, but you can speak for everyone. Some of us who live alone and are WFH and have seen nobody we care about in person for over 7 weeks are feeling incredibly lonely and very isolated. I absolutely cannot go on indefinitely unable to see anyone I love, particularly my boyfriend.

You say we so assume you live with at least one person? So you have company, you get to see someone in the flesh for a lot of the time, you aren't so lonely that you cried after last night's announcement because it mentioned nothing about seeing people at any stage of the plan, not even the July stage?

No I’m not alone.
If you’ve got to the stage where you’re crying about being safe on your own, you need to engage your own common sense and analyse the risk to yourself in maintaining your isolation. I honestly think it’s just quite clear
Sil lives alone and her boyfriend comes to her window once a week and they have a chat. They’ve made that decision themselves, they didn’t wait for an announcement from the government to see if it was okay, they just had a think and realised that they were further apart than if they were in a supermarket with other people, he’s at the side of her house and not in a street and it’s on his way home from work.
But yeah, I’m just saying I think the new guidance is relying on people to use their brains a little bit in weighing up for themselves (and to others) the risks.
Hope you can at least talk to people on the phone/FaceTime etc.