How much do you argue with your boss?

[SpringSpringTime]

I work for a small company. This means that a good proportion of my energy at work is spent managing up - either actively trying to get my boss to let me know their ideas/wishes/instructions, or trying to steer them in a more sensible direction when they come up with mad shit from time to time. Sometimes this latter point can be quite high conflict.

How do you pick your battles at work? Do I keep throwing energy into talking my boss out of silly ideas, which create loads of extra work and get us nowhere, operationally? Or do I just accept my job is to do what I'm told, do it within my hours, and go home again thinking 'it's the bosses problem whether this works or not'. And should I fight for us to do the things I really think are good ideas? How much?

Reflections and advice very welcome...

Like, if I was your employee, and you'd hired me because I am reasonably bright and reasonably competent, you'd expect me to say something if I thought you were making a mistake, wouldn't you? Or even just massively overlooking a part of your workload that is actually quite important to the business.

I just hit a lot of points at work where I think, IT'S NOT UP TO ME TO TELL YOU WHAT YOUR JOB IS, but then maybe I have to?

I wouldnt call it arguing but I have no problems telling my boss if something isnt going to work. If they decide to press on and it goes to shit then that's on them 🤷‍♀️

Although I suppose it depends on the industry you work in too

I have no qualms about discussing things with mine either. There does come a point where I sometimes step back because there’s no point as she’s not going to listen.

My boss is great - really reflective and open to discuss her reasons behind her actions. I feel 100% confident knowing I can ask 'why did you do x?' or comment 'might it be better to do y?' And I know I'll get a sensible answer and wont be thought of as argumentative or rude. She's fab at developing future leaders, so, as for arguments, never really.

Depends how often he's a twat or I'm a twat. We have minor day to day squabbles and then occasionally, when the situation warrants it, we have a proper row with drawers slammed, pens thrown and the particulars of our disagreement shouted across the shop at each other.

I think you should give your opinion, play devils advocate and point out practicality issues but pick your battles. Ask yourself if this is really the hill to die on and save the arguing for the things that are important. If you resist every silly idea he will get used to arguing with you and start to ignore you. Better that you just say, I dont think that will work because XYZ and then let him find out the hard way. Then he will listen more when you really need to veto a ridiculous idea.

I've never had an argument with a boss. I've been working for over 20 years...

My boss is lovley but deluded as to how we actually get the job done. Luckily he's only in once a week as manages lots of care homes.
When he comes we just say yes and do it his way for a day and then other 6days do it our way.
We call it just protecting him from being upset. Works for us if he were here 7days a week l would have to argue my points more forcefully.

Would you just say something like I don't think this will work because of x y and z. Then if they don't listen to you and it goes wrong the responsibility's on them?

I've had many conversations at work like that. Tbh it's not work my stress to get my knickers in a twist about it. I gave my opinion so it's up to them what they want to do with it.

I can see why it can be frustrating seeing people jump into silly mistakes but it's not your responsibility to nanny them.

Whenever I gently query my boss's decisions she either ignores me or goes into a strop, or both. So I've stopped, not worth the hassle.

I was planning on leaving but the pandemic put paid to that.

I don't argue but I do challenge. Sometimes it becomes clear quite quickly that I won't win so I save my breath but quite often
she'll take comments onboard. Sometimes a few days later my suggestions come back as new ideas Ultimately it's her who's responsible so whatever she decides I'll deliver.

As a leader though it's incredibly frustrating to have someone work for you who knows why all your ideas won't work but doesn't have a better idea.

You need to be able to say this won't work because XYZ but if we do ABC we'll achieve the same thing .

Never. I very rarely row with anyone behind my immediate family.

No. I've never had an argument with anyone at work in 25 years. Exchanging views, yes but not arguments or conflict. That doesn't sound very professional.

I will disagree with him, but, hinestly... i just do as i'm asked. Even if it is essentially busy work. He hardly delegates, so, i just leave him to his interesting ideas... nothing gets done anyway. Its been three years and he still hadn't replaced the firewall that was supposed to be done as he arrived. I was doing it - was ready to test, bring network down and flip the switch within 3 weeks (only delay is there's an unwritten rule, that we fgive around 2 weeks notice ffor planned downtime of any system) . he took the project off me tyhe first week, and we're no further forward.

I don't argue with my boss at all. He doesn't mind suggestions and acts on most of them. He's a good problem solver. Has a great rapport with his staff. Takes a great interest in our career progression. Our "Area" is one of the best on our transport system.

Oh I was using argue as a general term, we don’t actually shout at each other, goodness! And this often comes up when i’ve got a really clear plan for what I need to do for my role, and it gets derailed by my boss making things needlessly complicated and diluting the actions that actually meet our goals. It is really, really frustrating and very draining.

Boss is always trying to kill two, three, event four birds with one stone and it often means the first bird (ie the priority target) is left flapping round the meadow unscathed.

I do try to make positive suggestions rather than just saying no, but it’s hard when what I really want to say is ‘let me do my fucking job! Let me do this one thing properly, which is my core work and critical to the business, and stop trying to add in stuff that would be ‘nice’’

....but which doesn’t really gain us anything, takes loads of extra work, and would be frankly unnecessary if we’d been a bit more organised in the first place’

@DateandTime do you make it clear to people when feedback is welcome, or when you just want them to get on with it? We make decisions so informally, and so quickly sometimes, that I just never know when it’s going to be my only/last chance to say my piece

Wow I have a lot of steam to let off on this

Never. I'll challenge him if I think he's wrong though

I don't think I've ever argued with my boss. I have to frequently stop her in her tracks and say hang on...look at it from this point of view. She is very expert in her field and highly technical. I'm more creative and as a project manager take a

• take a wider view!

It might be you that's the issue OP.
Might not be but your use of language is very combative.

Dialdown yes that’s entirely possible, though I’m definitely not excessively combative. When my boss over complicates my ideas and diverts us from our goals, I kind of just give up. I mean I keep going obviously, but it kills my enthusiasm and I don’t put as much in, because it just feels pointless. I actually really need to work out how to tell my boss he’s wrong in a sensible way rather than just giving up (internally) and knowing I’m doing a crapper job than i’d Like. I suppose my question really is, should I be trying to do my job as well as I possibly can, or should i be trying to please my boss?

How I wish the two were one in the same!