How many kids actually have SEN?

[justasking14]

Morning all, not trying to be offensive with this just genuinely interested.
A big proportion of people on MN seem to have DC with autism or SN of some kind, its mentioned in their posts & replies. Have other people noticed this too & do you think its representative of general population or do mums of DC with SN use this forum more for whatever reason?

As a parent of a teenager with Downs I’m happy to do my bit to educate the many many parents who are fortunate to be in the position of being naive to the world of SEN haven’t got a single person in their world with a physical or learning disability.

In fact even my friends who have disabled children but don’t work in schools, how far reaching the umbrella term of SEN goes blows their mind they think it’s only for children like their own with a diagnosed disability!!!

DS1 has high functioning autism and at present can mask his way unobtrusively through a school day. The dyslexia was bloody obvious right from y1 (and before) but we didn't get anywhere with that until we paid for private assesment at 8.5.
I first raised concerns about his speech development by 2.5 when the HV was visiting for his baby brother.

I suspect that my background in teaching has helped. While absolutely no expert in SNs, I have experienced working with children with them and recognised the difficulties and idiosyncracies that DS showed. It probably has helped me to be taken seriously by other professionals.

I think it is likely that I have undiagnosed dyspraxia. In PE, I was the child who flailed and ducked at an approaching ball, who couldn't cope with running around as a team and anticipating what would happen. My organisation was poor. I got through secondary by carrying every item every day.
My writing was slow, and organising extended writing at A-levels was slow progress. I learned to swim in 1:1 lessons at 16. Five years of school lessons and instructors yelling and flailing at the sides meant I was as crap at doggy paddle at 11 as I was at 7. Only 2 of us out of 60 were still in the toddler pool at the end of y6.

The internet has helped a lot in recognising SNs and seeking support, and forums such as Mumsnet are invaluable peer support when you don't necessarily know people in a similar position in real life. It's also a social outlet for people living with SNs, (their own or in the family) whereas NT people are more likely to be socialising in person.

In schools, I've certainly encountered children clearly with undiagnosed SNs that struggle on where parents aren't willing to engage. No self diagnosing (with the exception of random dietary requirements on Brownie camp; they're easy to spot because they're the kids that are aghast that if they are gluten-free, they're gluten-free everything, and they strangely became gluten-free after the last camp, not long after their best friend had dietary issues identified)

I remember speaking to someone who made the highly offensive comment that autism was the latest fad diagnosis, she said it was like hyperactivity was 20 years ago. Some people just don't understand it, and still think its just poor parenting. Nothing could be further from the truth.

DH is probably on the scale as he has lots of 'quirks' such as the tins in the kitchen cupboards have to be facing outwards and in a certain arrangement, he literally comes out in a cold sweat if they're not in the right order. He's a neat freak whereas I'm a scruff 😂

@HebeMumsnet Personally I think the 'This is My Child' campaign needs to be run again.

Mine definitely does. My head is battered all the time 😫

Personally I think the 'This is My Child' campaign needs to be run again.

I think with the anti-SN talk that's allowed to continue unabated on here it would be incredibly hypocritical to do so when MNHQ's only intervention is ever an "ahem can we remind you of our campaign"

Diagnosis is now much better, there’s still a very long way to go as the system does still need improving.

It’s something that can be hard to ‘get’ my son has SEN, he is hearing impaired, however with aids his hearing is good and it has so far had zero impact on his ability to communicate, in fact he’s verbally bilingual. But of course hearing aids are visible.

He is adopted which of course comes with challenges, this is his ‘invisible’ need. People can see he has a hearing impairment, they can’t see attachment issues, food anxiety or the many random things that lead to fight/flight/freeze.

He is very bright, he turns five in June, he can do simple addition and subtraction, he is a good reader and shows good reading comprehension, his verbal ability is also very good.

What I have noticed is the number of people who think having additional needs means the child/person lacks intelligence. Yes some additional needs do mean someone may have a slightly lower IQ, but that seems to be the automatic thinking for some people.

Where children are concerned people will sometimes say things like “well he’s okay now” yeah he’s definitely okay and has no ill effects from being used as an ashtray, or being force fed a dirty nappy

Generally society is getting better at understanding additional needs, but there is still a very long way to go. Another big problem is that until recently if a child had additional needs putting them in an institution and forgetting about them was a viable option, there is still societal shame surrounding additional needs.

Ideally more people would research ACEs and the impact it can have for someones entire life.

There are more sen children now because it is now possible to get a diagnosis, when we were at school, unless you had something blindingly obvious like a limb missing or were blind or deaf, you were fine. Children with autism or ADHD were just labelled as difficult, the children with ADHD were the ones who spent most of their school lives being sent out of lessons or in detention, the Autistic ones were labelled as loners or just plain weird. I was diagnosed with autism age 53 last year, it had never crossed my mind until ds was diagnosed age 9, I was bullied horrifically at school, never fitted in, never had friends, was told by my teachers that I would never get a job, never reached my true potential either at school or in work as again I never fitted in, being labelled as difficult to work with. It took 3 years to get ds diagnosed as school were in denial that he had problems, blaming me by saying I was a poor parent, reporting me to social services & landing me with a social worker who tore our household apart with her accusations about how I was neglecting ds, I wasn't, he just didn't understand how to behave & had the worst meltdowns ever which at times must have sounded to the neighbours like I was trying to murder him, not trying to explain that he must wear his school sweatshirt & coat because it was below freezing outside.

I think with the anti-SN talk that's allowed to continue unabated on here it would be incredibly hypocritical to do so when MNHQ's only intervention is ever an "ahem can we remind you of our campaign"

Very true.

I do wish they would have a zero-tolerance deletion policy on anti-SN comments.

I know quite a few teachers and they all say that although there are of course kids with genuine special educational needs and autism, dyslexia etc, the majority of SEN/ASD kids they see are not mentally or intellectually challenged and just have inadequate parents who want to label the kids as having the problem rather than looking at their own parenting style.

Shame your own parents didn't look at their own parenting style as they've apparently raised an ableist bigot.

You don't just rock up to CAMHS and say "I'm having some trouble with my kid, they won't behave" and then walk away with a diagnosis.

To give you an example, autism is a neurodevelopmental condition where there are marked differences in the brain structure of an autistic person when compared to the brain of a neurotypical person. Do tell me how one goes about faking differences in brain development in order to obtain a "get out of jail free" parenting pass?

SEN/ASD kids they see are not mentally or intellectually challenged

Let's also clear a few things up here.

1. SEN and ASD are two sides of the same coin and do not need an ''/" between them

1. SEN stands for Special Education Needs, SN stands for Special Needs. While the two terms are often used interchangeably on places like MN, generally speaking SEN means difficulties that affect your ability to learn and SN means disabilities. While there is often overlap between the two you can have Special Education Needs and no corresponding conditions or disabilities, likewise you can have Special Needs or disabilities and no educational needs

1. Disabled does not automatically mean mentally or intellectually challenged and very often children with Special Needs are very bright, very adaptive, and it is the way the system is set up that let's then down and this is why the right support is vital and why early intervention improves outcomes so much - if you judge a fish on its ability to climb a tree then it will live its life believing it is stupid, but out that fish in water and it will show you exactly how brilliant it is.

I suspect that a lot of children went undiagnosed in the 80,s if a child was autistic and just about managing in mainstream then they probably went unnoticed or even if they didn't manage very well a lot I expect would have been the disruptive or the child nobody particularly liked ,my own child has severe autism and learning disabilities it might have been suggested we would automatically put him.in a home etc in years gone by, thankfully we don't hide away disabled children and adult,s and whilst he will never live independently he will hopefully always be part of the community.

You will probably find that more children have SEN than you realise. My son has diagnosed ASD but most parents of children in his class wouldn't know unless I tell them.

They would probably just think he's very shy or rude (depending on how charitable they are!).

I think loads of people when undiagnosed. My DS1 is dyspraxic - and shares many characteristics with both my partner, and my dad - both of whom were just labelled lazy/clumsy and written off at school.

If you get the right school, then it's night and day for a child with some differences - all it takes is a teacher who understands that DS1 just won't remember to do some things himself, but a simple reminder and he'll do it perfectly happily (go to the toilet, put his books away in his bag etc). Or that he really is trying, but just finds writing absolutely exhausting, and he's not going to improve that at the same speed as other kids. vs. what DP got (and DS1 had in another school) where he was just constantly criticised for not being as fast as the other kids at things - punished for not doing things that he found inordinately hard compared to other children, and that didn't even matter much in the long run.

With respect @SimonJT SOME people with additional needs do have a far lower IQ than other, s Autism for example is a huge spectrum and whilst lots of people won't have severe learning disabilities or any learning disabilities ,my sons special school is full of children with a dual diagnosis of autism and severe learning disabilities

There's a theory that back when people believed in fairies and magic, that Changling children were actually autistic children or children without neurodevelopmental conditions.
adc.bmj.com/content/90/3/271

Without = with other

I spoke to a friend who is also a teacher and there appears to be a divide in that there are children who are SEN

Nope, children HAVE SEN, they are not their condition or disability.

A big proportion of people on MN seem to have DC with autism or SN of some kind

FYI, SN and SEN are two different things. Only mentioning it because your thread title refers to SEN and then your post refers to SN. Plenty of people on MN seem to use the terms interchangeably and be unaware they aren't actually the same thing.

I think it’s true that there is more likely to be a diagnosis these days, than there was previously. It’s also true that there are degrees of difficulty and one of the problems has always been working with children to improve outcomes when they don’t meet the criteria for an EHCP, or other formal defined support.

When I first started working in SEN, there was a perception that it covered, in various forms, about 10% of the population, so three in every class of 30 could be categorised. The authority I worked in expected than no more than 2-3% of children would qualify for what was then a statement.

With improved methods of diagnosis and more knowledge, it’s clear that the 10% is very much an underestimate. The trouble with the EHCP allocation is, of course, the lack of funding.

The range and severity of children with SEN is vast. There are children with SEN who are extremely able, there are some who are average and some whose cognitive ability is impaired. Then add all the conditions that are diagnosed and the picture is complex indeed.

There are insufficient resources and specialist schools available to support the range of ability/disability, as well as the conditions that present and that is one reason why the numbers and percentages are unclear.

@Brogley
That is pretty much exactly our path to diagnosis starting 13 years ago when DS was 3. Well up until changing school . Instead he has been excluded in year 10 for ' overreacting' in response to a really really difficult years and lots of bullying

People so battered and let down they hide their childs diagnosed conditions until the school place is accepted as they know some schools will fight against taking a child with SEN
Yup. Pretty much exactly what we do. We played down the issues as otherwise we have a fight for schools to take him

You could always tell them to get off your property as they don't have you permission to be there and then arrange a more convenient day/time for them to carry it out? Or grit your teeth and let then get it out of the way today so it's over with?

Wrong thread

@x2boys “Yes some additional needs do mean someone may have a slightly lower IQ“

That’s what I said, hidden amongst my lengthy ramble.

'Self diagnosed' is simply a lack of piece of paper, my ds displays PDA and dyslexia hes had fuck all support due to cuts largely and its a disgrace, hes nearly 8, ive been on the pathway for 2 years did all the ridiculous parenting classes that weren't SEN specific 🙄🙄 which is useless to me. to be fobbed off with an online assessment which ill have to do but isnt a correctly comprehensive assessment.