My sons primary school have measured their classrooms...

[DonLewis]

And if social distancing is how schools will be able to open, they can fit 9 children in per classroom.

Reception is 3 form entry and totally open plan.

It's a virtually brand new building, so not like the school I went to, a tiny voctorain thing with portacabins in the playground as dinner huts.

So, how does this work? Most classes have 32+kids in them.

From September I think teachers will wear PPE and social distancing measures will be ignored in the classrooms. Children will be kept in their class groups for lunch and break times.

If they go back this side of the summer holidays then it may well be part time but realistically we cannot disturb education until a vaccine is both found and administered to everyone.

The teachers at our school have said they would prefer not to teach in PPE.

I wonder if they will 'bubble' secondary school children, they stay in their form room and the teachers move. It would reduce cross contamination but would be a bugger to teach a science lesson in a history classroom.

It would also be a bugger to teach a history lesson when half the class haven’t chosen that option.

DonLewis so you have a classroom which has 3 classes in, so say 90 kids and with 2 metre distancing you can fit 9 children in? So now 1 child needs the space normally used by 10, i.e. you usually have 10 children in a space 2 metres by 2 metres? Do they just all stand still all day? I can't imagine you have room for desks or chairs.

Good point 1forsorrow. Sounds like the space wasn’t at all adequate for the number of children in the first place.

Is there any actual science behind the 2m rule? Is it not 1.5m in Germany? Physical distancing seems about as backed in science as face coverings are. There are no studies that show either of them makes a difference

Of course they make a difference. Physical distancing reduces the chance of tiny droplets being breathed in and a face mask catches them if you cough.

The question is how big a difference they make. I agree that hand washing is the big one but if everyone was in face masks that might make a big difference.

I think that it was Professor Jonathan Van-Tam that said that social distancing with 4/5 year olds would be an impossibility

We can be as vigilant as possible about hand-washing and cleaning. We can cancel assemblies, eat lunch in the classroom and stagger playtimes and pick-up/drop-off. But we cannot maintain social distancing. Before anyone from the government makes any rules about how schools should operate, they need to actually set foot in one.

This.

Thanks Rainbow I knew someone had said it and I'm glad that they recognize that young children are not going to understand or remember.

Before anyone from the government makes any rules about how schools should operate, they need to actually set foot in one

Absolutely

The issue around the vulnerability of adults working in and with schools is another large issue that needs some thinking about.

I'm chair of governors at one primary and a governor at another. I also still work part-time in a role which takes me into both primary and secondary schools. I have permanently damaged lungs from repeated bouts of bronchitis (though I've never smoked) and so am at great risk were I to contract the virus.

I, for one, will not be going into any schools for a very long time and would imagine this is true for a wide range of people. It's going to impact on schools and education for quite some time.

I'm actually really glad I live in Ireland and that our schools are not back till Sept as this would really concern me.

Like yourself our classes are 30+ pupils, there's lines of buses and cars as well as walkers bringing children on normal mornings. The schools are mainly small. It would also be a nightmare trying to get younger children to keep away from each other, having being separated for weeks they'd be excited to see each other, imagine trying to explain, well now we're letting you back out but you can't play with your friends but you can look at them from a distance.

What about teachers? What if some have underlying conditions, is there going to be some protection put in place for them?

How do they work secondary schools? Is it like here where they change classes for each subject? Would be impossible to keep them to one room as everyone does different subjects and are different levels of learning.

What about lunch times? That could be a nightmare trying to keep the whole school separated.

If they stagger hours and days for the pupils, it could end up depending on numbers your child only getting to attend for 2 days.

I know they have to go back at some stage and I guess that's why the Irish gov decided on Sept, as that just wouldn't work here, our schools wouldn't be able to carry this out practically. So I'm assuming the schools in the UK are much more spacious?

I'd die if something happened to my children, so this would be a huge concern for me.

We’ve been told to prepare a risk assessment for our classes with a number less than half of the usual class size.

Rotating children should do the trick, and use larger spaces like canteens, assembly halls and other areas instead.

Space outside should be used where possible too. It is summer, with some covering many schools could easily operate lessons outside (forest school concept)

Bluntness100 - its all very well lamenting the leaders of educational establishments arent being sensible as its obvious that social distancing doest apply to kids but we have this document
www.gov.uk/government/publications/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-social-distancing-in-education-and-childcare-settings/coronavirus-covid-19-implementing-social-distancing-in-education-and-childcare-settings
that literally has 'try to follow social distancing guidelines' as a bullet point.
So we are trying.
Now when they ioen up schools to more pupils they might issue a new document but its no point not doing some thought experiments and planning about what we might be expected to make happen by the government.

Lipz You will have the same problem in September! Corona is not going anywhere soon. Better for us to trial run what works in June, and more importantly what doesn't, so we can be ready to fully open in September with the issues addressed and hit the ground running.

Lessons outside only if you have enoight space, oh and it's not raining. Against, hard to do.

If I'm in full time, teaching small numbers of kids, how do I set work for the rest?

I'm good but I'm pretty sure I can't do 2 jobs at once.

Lots of schools are doing this. Personally I think they're wasting their time but they want to feel they are planning for a return.

I think the 2m thing will change to 1m (in line with WHO) before schools go back anyway, then they'll have to recalculate.

One of our secondaries have calculated that they can accommodate one year group at a time in 50 classrooms, but what will they teach them like that and who will teach it?

A far bigger threat to the ability to reopen schools is the number of teachers too unwell, mentally or physically, to work. If the vulnerable are told they must return, many will be signed off with genuine anxiety.

@Biscuit0110 that would not work in a high school where large spaces are already used every lesson for dance, drama, PE etc.

Whatever is decided, we are all going to have to accept that teaching methods are going to change readically. No group work, no collaboration, no sharing of equipment, double/triple the photocopying of resources, practical equipment for maths put away, desks and tables separated out into individual units, and presumably more didactic instruction with kids then working individually on the answers.
Not ideal AT ALL.
And yes, the "science" will miraculously be found to back up the notion that 2 metres is unnecessary.

guy I guess we could use our imagination and ask for larger marquees or tents to carry on lessons in the rain if needed. It is not impossible to imagine that school communities can pull together to help provide what is needed. All schools have some outside space , even a very small area that can be used.

We are going to have to be solutions based, and not just give up if there is a small problem immediately, hands in the air, saying it can't be done. We have managed to overcome bigger problems than this in the war fgs.

zap then we won't be doing dance, drama and PE for the time being. Academic lessons have to come first. It is really that simple.

@Biscuit0110 they're GCSE subjects

One thought that I had would it be possible to use empty office blocks to help spread kids out. Not ideal but we aren't in an ideal world.

So teacher in one room with video link to next classroom and then the teacher can move between the two rooms.

Office buildings are generally flexible so make the class rooms bigger.

I don't see how limiting class numbers will make any difference? It's ridiculous. The virus can be transmitted by the teacher or vice verse who then passes it on to kids in the next group and so on..... either close schools down until the vaccine (if there's a chance there will be one this year) if not, schools will have to carry on as they were with the strict hand-washing. I think kids not being separated from their friends if they are in separate groups will be unfair because who knows when they will next be able to see them? Also, schools need not have too many measures in place as I think long term it will be harmful to mental health.