What the fuck was the point in the Nightingale hospital?

[QOFE]

I just don't understand

I thought it was meant to take coronavirus patients to free up normal hospitals so the NHS didn't grind to a halt?

But I've just read an article saying it's likely to be wound down as it's not taken a new patient in over a week and the most it's ever had was 35, despite having 4000 beds.

But there's thousands of people who haven't been treated or admitted to hospital when they should have been, whilst a dedicated hospital sat empty? Elderly people being sent back to care homes to spread the virus to staff and the other patients due to no space for them to stay in hospital, but an empty hospital that they could have gone to instead?

What's that about then? Like... What was the point?

We will absolutely need those beds in the winter as we will have flu, norovirus which almost overwhelm us anyway and covid 19 too. It will be awful!

my closest nightingale hasn't even opened yet. If the plan was to never use them surely they wouldn't bother opening it.

If everyone that could have been treated in hospital had been, then the Nightingale hospitals would have been needed.

They weren't needed, not because there were not enough ill people, but because, initially, anyway, people who could have benefitted from early treatment were screened out by paramedics/111 (under instruction).

One question is whether the threshold for hospitalization has been right. Would earlier hospitalisation (and therefore more patients in hospital) have resulted in better outcomes? If earlier hospitalization would have been better then we should have been using the nightingale hospitals.

Not having access to a crystall ball probably OP and perhaps they'll consider all 8 Nightingales for future cases so that hospitals can get back to their 'day job'

Apparently it's because the government used the Imperial College modelling statistics based on the number of people over 70 that would intubate. But Oxford scientists, I believe, are saying that that was never going to happen because you just don't intubate that many over 70s because, for most of these patients,it's not clinically wise.

I'm not sure why the government used Professor Ferguson from Imperial and his modelling; he hasn't got a great track record

I wish they'd used the Nightingale Hospitals and had a lower threshold for admissions. Maybe less people would have died in the community. Maybe less people would be suffering from the myriad other effects. Maybe people in itu would have survived if they were taken in earlier.

The wonderful thing about the Nightingale hospitals is that we didn't need their extra capacity after all!

This. I'm
Glad they were there just in case though.

It's strange to read that they weren't needed - when I know two separate people who were seriously ill with covid, and not taken to hospital - apparently not ill enough - despite actually being REALLY REALLY unwell. You'd think if they had all that spare capacity, they could have been a bit more caring to the people struggling to breathe at home. The stress on their loved-ones was unbelievable, not to mention the fear and suffering for the person themselves.

@LaureBerthaud agreed not only naive, it’s because had We used this extra capacity, the mortality rate would have been a bit lower. Cancer appointments and treatments and all necessary treatments should have never been Stopped. No one should be suffering at home when we have empty hospital beds.

Remember the scenes from Italy of old people in corridors, Doctors having to make horrible choices about who got the ventelators etc? They were to avoid that if we got to that stage.

MNer likes to claim that 'everyone' was flouting the lockdown, but really the truth is most British people have stayed in. Businesses are reopening now that always could have stayed open - more decided to close than stay open. The spread dropped quickly because, with the loud notable exceptions of every other MNer's elderly neighbours having their grandkids over - we stayed at home.

They haven't come into their own yet because existing ICUs have not been overwhelmed and because most people are either fine at home or need to be in top teaching hospitals with the most experienced consultants. I think that will change as the virus progresses and they discover more about how best to treat patients with it. There will be more reorganisation within the NHS, but if the Nightingale hospitals are never full it will be a good thing.

The wonderful thing about the Nightingale hospitals is that we didn't need their extra capacity after all!

I agree.

Plus regarding the staffing issue, they had no control over the amount of NHS staff self-isolating due to them or a family member showing signs.

At least there's a test now if done within 5 days.

If they hadn't made provisions and we needed them, people would be furious.

We made provisions, we didn't/don't need them (so far), people are furious.

Would you have preferred them to be full of critically ill people to justify their existence?

They didn't have enough ICU nurses, at least in the London one. Poor management.

we have 700 deaths a day, yet people are raving about not having used the Nightingales and therefore it’s good news.

What’s the point of having good Medical service if they are not willing to use it?!! We might as well not have it in the first place.

It’s like buying a pair of really good pair of running shoes to run a marathon, but I choose to use an old knackered up shoe that’s falling apart instead that will wreck my feet and joints just because I don’t want to dirty my newly bought shoes!!!

because we didnt take people into hospital for treatment anyway so the capacity wasnt reached

From what I can understand,it was a staffing issue,as in a lack of. Therefore,I do seriously wonder why they built the place to begin with. Surely the powers-that-be must have known that they weren't going to be able to suddenly produce a few hundred extra nursing staff?! Crazy.

We should be glad that capacity was there in case it was needed, and that it wasn't needed.

it's good they're not being used but it's not true it's because of lack of staffing, it's lack of need
Except I have read And heard so many stories, on here and in the local media, of people being very seriously ill and 111 refusing to send an ambulance becasue they event ill enough. One story that has stayed with me, was a single mother who thought she was dying, couldn’t care for her, couldn’t get out of bed or breathe properly and having to prepare her ds what to do if she should die.

I suppose you could say that obviously she didn’t need to be admitted because she got through it on her own at home, but I think it’s diabolical that an ambulance wasn’t sent to her to check her over.

I do wonder if the death statistics would have been lower if people had been admitted earlier to hospital and treated sooner, rather than waiting till they were too seriously ill for treatment to be beneficial.

Great that the hospitals stayed under capacity, but I’m not sure that counts if people needing admitting couldn’t actually get in to the system when they needed to be treated.

@tobee agree with all of that. Like others, people within my circle needed paramedic attention and the paramedics treating them were refused permission to admit. The death rate of those who were eventually admitted would suggest that a lot of them got there too late. With vast acres of hospital space lying empty and many staff underoccupied this clearly wasn't a capacity issue nor was it to do with funding. It was fundamental mismanagement and I have no doubt that it has cost lives.

Sigh

Maybe when we have the next spike they'll have learned lessons and admit people before they're extremely ill. I'm glad they weren't much needed this time but there's a long way to go before we say they've been useless.

Thankfully, we didn't seem to have the same volume of patients needing ventilation all at once as was predicted.
I have no idea why we didn't seem to have the scenes inside our hospitals like were reported in Wuhan and Lombardy and parts of Spain.
Certainly it seemed to be expected.
Anyway, better to over prepare than under prepare. Glad that, so far, they haven't been needed.

In order to have a back up plan you need a.....back up plan. 🤪

Tomorrow I will take the spare tyre out of the boot of my car because I didn’t need it a week last Tuesday.

Insurance eh? Whats the bloody point, I've never been burgled, look at all the money I wasted.