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Original poster

How intelligent do you need to be to do a PhD?

69 replies

Thefifthbeatle · 02/05/2020 08:05

I have been starting to look into the entry requirements for a PhD in history and am feeling a bit inadequate; I'm not sure whether I might make a fool of myself if I apply/if I get in.

I have a 2:1 from Oxford in history but it wasn't a great 2:1 (63). I'm ashamed to say that I didn't do a huge amount of work at law school because I was so incredibly bored, so didn't get amazing results (69), but could probably have done better if I had pulled my finger out. I don't yet have a master's, although I appreciate that I am likely to need one. I love spending my days researching; I've spent the last 15 years as a lawyer, but want to direct it into something I love, rather than the GDPR, etc. I'd be the first to confess that at 20, I probably wasn't a very original thinker. I wasn't ever going to get thrown out of college, but I was so anxious to get it "right" that my essays were probably regurgitated facts rather than ground breaking arguments. I'm not completely stupid, but I am very far from being a genius.

I don't need to worry about funding; I am lucky enough to be able to pay for this myself. I'm just worried that I'm not bright enough for this, or that even if I get accepted, it'll be miserable because I'll always feel like the most stupid person in the room. For context, I have recently been made redundant because the company is collapsing, so my confidence is pretty low right now.

Might anyone know whether it sounds as though I'd be hopelessly out of my depth? And is it the case that some universities would in practice accept less stellar candidates? Is it easier for example to get into the Open University than it is to get into Oxford?

Thank you.

OP posts:

notsureneversure · 02/05/2020 08:09

I don’t have a PhD but I know many people who do, if that helps???

Based on what you’ve said, you’ll be fine. I think you’ve got a bit of Dunning-Kruger going on there.

Oxyiz · 02/05/2020 08:10

What do you want to research?

You could try a research by masters degree and see if you really enjoy academic life and have a passion for it. Otherwise three years of it can be torture for even academically-inclined people.

Ideally you should know what you want to research in your PhD and look up the relevant experts and potential supervisors, regardless of their institution.

MonsteraCheeseplant · 02/05/2020 08:14

You just have to be good at researching I reckon. Supervisors and peers and other journal articles are helpful for supporting or negating arguments and suggesting further research etc. I don't think you have to be an original thinker. It's not for the lazy though. And yes I agree, confidence appears to be your biggest obstacle here.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

Higher education

Susanna85 · 02/05/2020 08:17

You must be academically gifted if you got in to Oxford(?) Have faith in yourself!

But why do you want to do it?

PeanutDouglas · 02/05/2020 08:19

On the basis you got a good degree from one of the best universities in the world I can pretty much guarantee you are intelligent enough for a phd!!!

Original poster

Thefifthbeatle · 02/05/2020 08:20

I appreciate that I will almost definitely need to do a master's degree to even apply for a PhD course. My kids are settled at school here, and DH has a job that can really only be done where we live, so realistically, I am slightly limited in terms of the institutions to which I can apply; it would need to be somwhere to which I could commute from here for supervisions etc. Or the Open University, I guess.

I don't even necessarily want to be an academic at the end of it, but it's something I'd like to do for myself. Possibly to prove I'm not as daft as I think...

OP posts:

Superstar22 · 02/05/2020 08:23

I have one & supervise students. You’d be more than fine. Perseverance is one of the most important things as well as 2.1 / further work based skills/ good independent research skills.
Good luck

RJnomore1 · 02/05/2020 08:25

To be honest if you’re self funding and especially if you do a research masters first you will be welcome almost anywhere.

HolyWells · 02/05/2020 08:25

I have an Oxford DPhil in another humanities subject. My question is why do you want to do a doctorate if you’re a lawyer who doesn’t seem to have enjoyed her history undergraduate degree very much? Do you have a project in mind? That, and a good supervisor match at an institution with the resources to undertake that research is what you should be thinking about.

There’s no reason why, with a viable project and a good supervisor, someone with a 2.1 shouldn’t be perfectly able for a doctorate, and you won’t need to compete for funding, but you do need to be very motivated, as essentially you’re writing a book by yourself for years. But, if you’re hoping a history doctorate will lead you towards an academic career, that’s a whole different ballgame.

justdontatme · 02/05/2020 08:26

I think the ability to self motivate, keep going & work on your own are the most important elements of a PhD. Why I will never do one because I lack all of those skills despite having excellent academic results! From what you say you’ll be fine. What field do you want to do a PhD in?

PerditaProvokesEnmity · 02/05/2020 08:26

Frankly it's less about being clever enough for the research and more about being smart enough to secure funding.

Ideally one persuades someone else to pay - but if you've managed to achieve enough in life to pay for it yourself there's no barrier.

ScreamingKid · 02/05/2020 08:28

Not very. I got offered one (ended up doing a post grad course at a bank) many years ago and let's put it this way,Oxford would have laughed me out of the building.

Whereismycatnow · 02/05/2020 08:28

It's more about perseverance and the ability to think critically than anything else! You really do have to be passionate about your chosen area and question or you'll go mad

Snaleandthewhail · 02/05/2020 08:30

I don’t have a PhD but am very involved in the PhD process.

My observation is that you don’t have to be outstandingly clever - but you do have to have a truck load of stamina (and then some) and real commitment to your subject. If you’ve got an idea for a project, then that’s a start, but if it’s merely “something to do” and money isn’t an object, is look at a masters (an MRes as someone suggested, might be right up your street).

A PhD is a long old haul and most (all?) candidates go through some dark times with it.

Abertropper · 02/05/2020 08:30

You don’t necessarily need a masters. I know people who skipped that due to finances and I think given you went to oxford and then law school people would accept you without the masters. I know people who got 2:2s and got a phd from lesser university’s than oxford so I wouldn’t worry about that! It’s not really about how smart you are it’s just how good your research proposal , finding a supervisor that is excited about your idea and ability to work in that sort of unstructured environment.

OneInEight · 02/05/2020 08:36

I have one so probably not much. Mind you I did a science PhD so probably easier than a history PhD because you have more direct supervision and colleagues to talk through your work. The longer I spent in research the more I realised that most research is not original but rather putting two known factors together in a different way. The biggest challenge is motivation and finding the right supervisor for you.

Original poster

Thefifthbeatle · 02/05/2020 08:48

HolyWells, it was law school that bored me to tears; I loved my undergraduate years. I was always afraid of "getting it wrong" but that isn't a reflection on my degree. Unfortunately, I'm a bit of a coward like that generally, although I've tried hard to shake it off over the years!

At the moment, I have about 10 subjects I'd love to look into more - as I say, I am at the very earliest stages of thinking about this. I know that a number of friends also wanted to burn their PhDs by the end, so I'm under no illusions that it's all sweetness and light, but the idea of writing a book by myself for a few years sounds like absolute heaven.

OP posts:

midgebabe · 02/05/2020 08:50

The bits that concern me is when you say you didn't do as much work as you should because you were bored

A huge amount of phd can be very boring. Loads drop out at the writing up stage because it's just a boring annoying slog.

GreyGardens88 · 02/05/2020 08:51

If you are graduated from Oxford with a 2:1 is pretty decent, yo do not need to have outstanding marks to do a PhD. In fact, in the interview process they will probably focus more on what have you achieved in your projects throughout your career. From my experience however, some high demanding unis do not accept self funding for PhDs (that is the case for Imperial, for example). I would recommend you to do a Masters and they apply for PhD funding.

AlwaysColdHands · 02/05/2020 08:55

The hardest thing for me doing mine was TIME. If you can make time, and you can be disciplined and committed to it, that’s half the battle I think. Took me 7 years due to work, kids etc.
In the end I spent about 4 months getting up every day at 4.30am to write the last of my thesis. It was hard but I’m SO pleased I did it (even though it’s just in a dusty corner now....)
Some good pointers from other posters here about supervisors, funding etc.

Magpiecomplex · 02/05/2020 08:56

I've just finished a science PhD - get yourself a copy of the book How to get a PhD. I found that really helpful in understanding what was required and involved... I don't have a master's degree either, but I do have two BSc degrees.

totallyyesno · 02/05/2020 09:00

I have one too and I agree that perserverance is key! I am actually very proud of my PhD because I wanted to give up so many times but stuck with it (through pregnancy, two babies and a toddler!) and got there in the end! Do choose a subject you love though - I wasted a ridiculous amount of time thinking about changing my research focus before deciding to just buckle down and get it finished.

Teenytinyvoice · 02/05/2020 09:00

Are you planning on doing it full time, or alongside whatever you do now?

Cherryblossomsnow · 02/05/2020 09:01

You will be fine. My dad is a naturally intelligent person but was actually a potter during his career. He completed a PhD in history on the side. It take dedication more than anything else. You sound like a smart cookie and if anything just need to feel sure that you will be motivated enough (always my issue!).

thequantofmontecarlo · 02/05/2020 09:04

@Thefifthbeatle From what I’ve read, I don’t think you should go for a PhD. Your motivation for one is based on you hating your current job and you don’t need a PhD to get a new one unless you want to get into academia, research etc.

I know a fair few people who’ve done PhDs and you need to be super motivated to stay the course and be academically inclined to do well.

I think you need to first decide on what career you’d like to have and then decide if you need to go back to uni.

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