Does my child need additional help?

[pinksmile]

My DS has just turned 3. He is 18 months behind with his speech, has just started stringing 3 words together. Assessed by S&L, discharged.
Hearing checked fine.
Assessed by paediatrician when he was around 2.5, no signs of autism or asd. Wasn't worried.

I just feel like he isn't thriving. He's so angry all the time. Unhappy. Yells no at me if he sees me dancing, singing, doing a work out video, eating. Screams at me to stop.

Has mother of all tantrums if we don't do exactly as he wants, in or out of the house. Struggle to take him places and give him experiences it's too difficult. Will scream no at other people who are just minding their business.

My discipline doesn't seem to have much of an effect, he isn't learning from it. We do the naughty step or removal of tv etc. We remove him from the environment if we are out of the home. For example at playgroup he was awful and shoving and pushing other children, refusing to share. He had warnings, ignored them so we left.

I do wonder if he has some kind of autism, demand avoidance maybe I don't know. Or is this just toddlers and they grow out of it? Are there any other red flags for developmental disorders that I should look out for?
Shouldn't he be much happier than he is? :(

Tricky op, hopefully someone will with me more knowledge will come along.
Toddlers can be difficult to please, aggressive, frustrated. But not all the time. They call them three nangers for a reason.

It's reassuring that he has been checked over. That's good. But a mother's instinct also counts for something. Try different stragetys with him... Keep an eye and remember sometimes they need to be seen by new professionals... But, try not to worry.

It must be hard in lock down to have a mini dictator telling you what to do!

ASD is notoriously difficult to assess in young dc. A single meeting with a Dr isn't sufficient to rule it out, I would say.

In terms of managing at the moment - have to tried clear pictorial timetables to help him understand what will happen in his day? The controlling behaviour you described sounds like an anxious reaction.

It sounds very hard for you.

Hi, what you're describing was my son at that age. He was hard work, his speech was way behind where it should have been for that age, we struggled potty training him and he never really seemed to be happy, would throw tantrums at the drop of a hat etc. I went through all the same channels as you and nothing came of it. As he grew older he caught up and passed on his peers with his language skills and is way above where he should be academically but still had behaviours which wasn't of the norm, we always just said he was quirky and as his school never seemed bothered we just tried to see past it. Last year his behaviours seemed to worsen and it came to the attention of his school. We were again referred for assessment and this time he has a diagnosis of asd. He's now 8. X

@Swingingsally thanks for replying. I am torn between the threenager stage and thinking it's something more. Sometimes though, On a good day, he's an angel. Good days are rare though.

@Stompythedinosaur I don't have a pictorial timetable, I haven't thought of that. Days are a bit unpredictable as I have a 7 month old so I'm dealing with her naps etc. I'll try it.

@elf81 I'm sorry it must of been tough for you. Nothing has come of it and his nursery were not concerned either. Just his speech was a concern but it's improved hugely since the baby came. I do wonder if he's just grumpy natured. He has
No problem with eye contact and social interaction with other children appears normal.

I wish I knew if this was normal toddler behaviour or not. I have some friends who think my DS is very difficult as theirs was 'easy' and some who think it's normal.

@elf81 I should also mention we are on our third type of potty now to get him to potty train and he absolutely will not do it. He screams.

We went through similar with our daughter. From about a year onwards, she was just so unhappy and we found her very difficult to manage. Her s&l was very late, but it became increasingly hard to help her as she struggled with going out, socialising with other children her own age etc.
She appeared very intolerant of other people.

I suspected ASD, but everyone (including professionals) suggested she was just delayed and frustrated.
She started at pre school at around 3 and a half, by this time she was a bit happier.
About 3 months in, the manager asked to see us and after a long chat, she said that she also felt our dd had ASD.

The ball really started rolling when she started school and she received a diagnosis just after her 5th Birthday. She’s now almost 9 and although has her difficulties and is now in an SEN school, she’s come a long way. We all have.

It might not necessarily be ASD for your child, but it might be helpful if you put things in place for him as if he was ASD. Visual timetables, routines, pecs etc (you’ll find more info online). Even if it turns out not to be ASD, these resources might help ease his frustrations and enhance his speech and won’t do any harm.

@nancyclancy123 that sounds so difficult I'm sorry. I think they have dismissed asd because he is quite sociable, he enjoys the company of children (most of the time) and shares when encouraged. He can be incredibly pleasant with strangers asking their name, giving them toys to play with etc. But if the game doesn't go his way it's awful.
I'll have a look at those things to put in place, especially the visual timetable it's been mentioned twice now. Like you said they can't hurt, thank you.

Pink smile, it sounds like your son has some sensory issues around noise. You could try eat defenders, to help him screen out things that are painful to him.

Also in terms of sensory input that helps people feel calm and grounded you could try a weighted blanket and or rolling him up tightly in a duvet. Also pushing or carrying heavy things can help give good feedback, eg carrying a child's chair, having some books in back pack. Try some of these things regularly.

Also if you want to look into visual timetables, have a look at Widgit online. I think it may be doing offers at the moment but it's not too expensive to sign up to. Twinkl which is free to parents at the moment also has some really good symbol resources for Sen.

It does sound like your son might have some additional issues, maybe sensory, maybe anxiety, maybe linking to an ASD profile but it's really hard to tell at 3. At the moment I would think it's hard to get appointments but you can do loads to be a detective in terms of what is triggering him. Try noting down what happens before and after- you might see some patterns.
I hope that's helpful, feel free to ask any questions, I've worked with ASC children for most of my career and with little ones.

I would speak to your HV or GP and request (you may have to push) a referral for ASD assessment, sorry. It’s normal behaviour but not a normal level of it. Be strong!

Is his speech still very delayed? If you have been discharged, it suggests not any more?

Does he go to pre school? Have you spoken to the senco/area senco?

Have you involved the Health Visitor-what was their opinion?

Definitely try visual timetables.
Keep an ongoing bullet point list of behaviours that concern you.
Thing about what’s working/not working with him-what have you tried that is successful? What are you already doing that works?
Are there any sensory needs?

I’d avoid ‘naughty step’ and go with positive reinforcement. What motivates him?

@Allthebubbles He does have noise issues. When he was a baby the sound of a baby wipe packet being opened, sneeze, cough, would terrify him and it would take a while to calm him down. He also hated anything mechanical. If he got a toy that made a mechanical sound when it was switched on he would be genuinely terrified. We took batteries out of a lot of things. For example he got a toy lawn mower that blew bubbles. When it was switched on he left the room and wouldn't come back that day.

Hand dryers send him into a meltdown but I can't stop other people using them in the bathroom when we are out.
I hoover everyday and he still gets upset. He can't stand fans. Any kind of fan. I have a fan in my bedroom mainly for white noise and it has to be either turned off or if it's on he needs the remote. Extractor fans in bathrooms, ceiling fans in cafes, he spots them instantly.

He loves me singing and asks for it but also hates it sometimes.
He like listening to baby bum on YouTube and other songs though. He single along when I sing sometimes so it's all very confusing.

@Appuskidu He is 3 and can say 3 words together. "Stay in pram, stay upstairs, stay on swing" that sort of thing. He also says "name* sad" but when I ask why he's sad, he can't tell me.
They discharged him because he is saying words now, and that it will only get better. It is improving, just slowly. He can count to 10 with encouragement. Compared to this time last year it's improved 100%.
He was due to start pre school the week lockdown was announced It was such a shame because he was really getting in well there.

We had issues with his eating and we tried the laid back approach I think you can call it. I took the mentality of I provide healthy meals, that's up to me, it's up to him what he eats. I don't get mad about it, don't pester him to eat. Just one or 2 encouraging words and that's improved.

I have been doing positive reinforcement for as long as I can remember and sometimes it works, sometimes it doesn't. He is excusing himself after burping and also saying please and thank you, we encourage manners so hopefully that's working.

When he has a huge tantrum say outside the home. Coming down and talking to him at his level and explaining does not work. It makes him more angry, I think because he doesn't understand. Removing him from the situation seems to be the only thing that works. He doesn't seem to understand explanations.

He certainly has a wonderful assortment of sensory issues there, op! And for that alone, I would encourage you to seek assistance for him. Look also at his sensory preferences around clothing, does he have better days in different clothing? For some time I didn't know why dd wasn't happy in certain clothes, but if she wore her pjs all day, she had a much better day (still does). She has sensory processing disorder and asd.

I can't see if anyone has said it here, but eye contact and social issues are a small part of ASD and a diagnosis cannot be ruled out because he doesn't struggle in these areas. In fact, it is angering that you were dismissed so readily!

I agree that some of it is normal, but yes, of course he should be happy and having good days! You both sound miserable.

If you have facebook, please follow this The Autism Discussion page

Bill Nason is full of great information and really helps me at times.

One thing.. DO NOT talk to him or try to reason with him in the middle of a meltdown. Make him feel safe, loved and accepted. Hold him if you can, rock him if he will let you, whatever usually conforts him, but with little verbal input. He cannot access the reasoning part of his brain in order to process what you are saying. You are just putting in more information and that will just make him feel more out of control.

I am trying to find a sensory/asd assessment online for you to look at, but not having much luck, I'll keep trying.

@Swingingsally It must be hard in lock down to have a mini dictator telling you what to do!

He is NOT a dictator and it is very unkind of you to refer to him as such. He is struggling with something, not dictating.

Dd is now 11, but her issues all started off as sensory, with very similar ones to your ds, hand driers etc. We cannot use them, and I carry hand sanitizer/wipes everywhere.

Anything else you can tell us that makes your "gut" sing out?

Hope this link works... it's a PDF.

It's called a sensory evaluation, and is in now way a formal way to diagnose anything, but it will give you a good over view and something to arm yourself with if/when seeking some help.

Sensory Evaluation

*no not now

@differentnameforthis he is very very sensitive. It took him a good 2 years before he stopped crying when I dropped him off at nursery.
I just feel as though he is in an environment where he should thrive... and he is struggling daily. He doesn't seem to have much enjoyment of anything.
He struggles to enjoy new experiences, he cries every birthday and Christmas at his presents. I don't know I'm struggling to articulate but I just generally feel as though I'm not supporting him the right way, the 'normal' way of doing things isn't right for him.

He was due to start pre school the week lockdown was announced confused It was such a shame because he was really getting in well there

Sorry, you’ve lost me-he was getting on well at preschool before he started?!

Or do you mean his speech was coming on well?

What has the HV said? apologies if you answered me before when I asked.

When was he discharged by SALT? Usually they won't even see a child until after they are three so it may be worth going back to them before long.

When was his hearing checked? What time of year? It's possible he has glue ear which fluctuates so worth keeping an eye on.

I'm also surprised that a paed said no asd at the age of 2.5. I think that is definitely worth following up again. That's a very unusual response at that age.

What do you think the issue is on his birthday/Christmas?

Would you say it is because of his presents, or overwhelm?

And you're doing just fine. If you do decide to seek another diagnosis, start keeping notes.

@Appuskidu sorry he was going to nursery one day a week and was doing well, and was due to move up to the pre school room and go 2 days a week. So it was a blow that he didn't get started.

@ToDuk he was discharged by S&L last summer when he was around 2.5 I think. The therapist said as he was now starting to talk they won't see him again until school age as if there is a problem still by then, it will be more apparent. Her advice was to continue encouraging and see where we are when he goes to school.

@Appuskidu sorry he was going to nursery one day a week and was doing well, and was due to move up to the pre school room and go 2 days a week. So it was a blow that he didn't get started.

Did you speak to the senco at the preschool? What did they say?

What did the HV say?

@Appuskidu the first port of call at our nursery was his key worker. I expressed my concerns a few times and she said neither her or any other staff member thought there was an issue that needed investigation. They agreed that his speech was very delayed. They said he may be frustrated at his inability to communicate and it will get better with time.

I did involve the HV, she said he needs boundaries and positive reinforcement, and clear routines. He has all this so it wasn't much help tbh