do lots of English schools stop after GCSEs?

[PineappleDanish]

Lots of posts on FB and on here about 16 year olds who are now no longer sitting GCSEs and have "left school". They are planning on going back to do A-levels in September but are going elsewhere, either to another school or college.

Is this a common practice for children either to switch schools after GCSEs or schools not to offer A-levels at all, just chuck them out at 16 into some sort of college provision?

We're in Scotland so things are very different but all schools go right through to 18. (well, apart from literally a couple on the islands where there are far fewer people). Some kids leave school after 16 and go off to college to study hairdressing, or mechanics, or other vocational courses. But if you're staying on to do academic study and doing things like English, Maths, Science, you stay at school. The same school you were already at - no switching. Colleges offering Highers are usually for adult learners or people who have left school at 18 without qualifications they need. Also schools don't chuck people out at 16 if they've done badly in their first set of exams.

Is this a common thing?

In my area, there are very few 11 -18 schools. Even where they exist, Y11s leave at the end of GCSEs and only some go back. We have a huge sixth form college and an FE College in my town and lots of kids opt to go there.

In my area all the secondary schools have a sixth form for academic A-levels, but kids have to get a certain grade in their GCSEs to be allowed to stay on. Those who get lower grades or who want vocational courses have to go to college.

So do 16 year olds at 6th Form college come and go as they please? Do people check up on when they're in, and do they need a note from their mum if they're sick? Is it full time (or 9-3 monday to friday) or just lectures and tutorials like Uni? And I'm assuming none of the stuff which school offers like PE, RE, PHSE, assemblies, school shows etc?

Totally alien to me!

Yes it's a thing but it does differ from area to area.
Most schools in my part of England have 6th forms. There is a college locally but that tends to attract kids from other areas where possibly the schools don't have 6th form. There is also a lot of movement between 6th forms at different schools.

My dc's school has a sixth form offering a mix of A-Levels and BTECs. Lots of kids stay on, some go to college (including specialist colleges like the agricultural ones) or other schools, some do apprenticeships.

Yes, where I live very few schools have 6th forms. My son’s does but it’s very small and only offers limited subjects. He is choosing to go to a college that offers the subject he wants to study (music).

Most move onto a 6th form or FE college. Hours depends on the course but yes, they are free to come and go. Anyone not attending lectures would be flagged up and there would be some kind of intervention or they would be asked to leave.

Colleges will have a range of extra curricular activities and just like schools there may be theatre productions, sports teams, orchestras etc.

School 6th form doesn’t have assemblies either, or PE. Not sure about PSHE.

In this county there are only about one or two schools with sixth forms - in the more remote corners, generally.
The Sixth Form colleges are among the best in the country. They're a halfway house between school and university. So no uniform; students only have to be in when they have a lesson. But they also have a tutor group and are registered formally each lesson. Absences have to be authorised by parents; dodgy attendance patterns / lack of work are chased initially with the student, then with parents.

I grew up in an area with school 6th forms, and the college system seemed weird to me at first, but I think it's better for most students than schools. No yr 7s to have to look after, wider subject choice, truly specialist subject teachers. 6th Form College students typically go on to achieve half a degree classification higher than privately educated school students with the same A-level results, so it works.

In my area, only one state school has a sixth form and it's tiny. There's a huge FE college that offers A levels and all the vocational stuff and most kids go there at 16.

Sixth form colleges are sometimes a bit stricter than FE colleges and I was at college ten years ago but it was nothing like school. We only had to be in when we had lessons. They'd contact parents if behaviour/attendance/attitude was really bad but we could phone ourselves in sick and teachers would talk to us direct if there was a problem. I was months behind with my art coursework at one point and my parents had no idea. No assemblies or shows or any of that. We didn't even have a prom.

And yes - no assemblies, but lessons happen in the same sort of classrooms as in a school, down to the interactive whiteboards. And there are parents' evenings, but only for those where there is deemed to be a useful conversation to be had, or if parents request to come. The canteen is called the refectory, there's two cafés, and a shop, so there are elements that are familiar from school and others that reflect the greater autonomy of the students.

Official school "leaving" date for year 11 is last Friday in June. However education or work related training is obligatory until 18 now. Some schools suggest work experience post gcse, run intro to A level courses and events like prom. In year 12 and 13 it varies from one to another schools and colleges will take a register but not necessarily require attendance beyond the chosen course teaching hours.

I was told at a parents information evening when my kids secondary school was forced to convert to an academy that they would not be offering a 6th form as 6th forms tend to lose schools money. Which just proved to me that the education of children comes second to the 'business' of running a school nowadays.

My eldest is past compulsory school leaving age (he's 17 now) but is still at school as in Scotland there is really no other option. He wears uniform, I have to call in if he's off sick, write a note if he has to leave early to go to the dentist. Last session he had no free periods at all and had to be in school full time. Next year he is allowed free periods. There are assemblies, parents' evenings, one PE lesson a week, extra curricular clubs, the oldest kids get involved in community work, Gold D of E, school shows....

Community work, shows d of E etc are usually available as options in both school 6th forms and colleges. In fact there are often more available in colleges due to numbers of students.

I should point out that this is an English thing - Not actually related to the GCSE/A level system.

In NI (which follows the GCSE/A level system, but which still also has AS levels unlike in England) school goes on to upper sixth (Yr14). You can choose to leave after 5th form (Yr12) and go to college (or tech as it used to be called) but staying in school is always an option available provided you get the grades to get back in. All schools go through to age 18.

If you choose to go to college you still have the option to sit A-levels or to do more vocational courses. (As well as GCSE resits etc) It would be unusual to do A-levels at college though.

Schools offer AS & A-levels in lower & upper sixth (Yr 13&14) and some schools also offer some BTECs these days too.

Scotland is different in that there are only 13 years of school - 7 in primary and 6 in secondary. (2 of which are optional so you can leave after 4th year, 5th year or 6th year.)

England has 14 years, but their year groups only go up to Yr13 because the first year of school is called Yr R (Reception) so primary is Yr R - Yr 6 and secondary begins at Yr 7. As has been demonstrated on this thread - some schools stop at Yr11 (5th year), while some go through to Yr13.

NI also has 14 years but goes up to Yr14 as primary has 7 years (P1-P7) and secondary has 7 (Form 1 - Upper 6th in old money, or Yr8 - Yr14 in new money.)

I have no idea about Welsh schools!

Genuinely hope that’s helpful. So much of MNet is England based and for posters from other education systems it can be confusing. I only really understand it because DH is English (and grew up in an area where schools stopped at 5th form), I’m Northern Irish and we’ve lived in England, NI & Scotland!

Here in Hampshire we have a fully comprehensive system and very, very, very, few schools have their own 6th forms. Where I am there are various colleges within easy (

Also in Scotland.. Ds was home ed in 4th year so sat GCSEs. He then went to the local college at (just turned) 16 for his highers. It felt quite weird to me because he was responsible for showing up (or not!) had to sign himself off sick (I wasn't allowed to do it for him) and only had to be in for lessons, whereas my friends' same age dc it was still uniform, parents phoning in for absence, parents' evening, etc. Although having grown up in England the weirdest thing for me in Scottish high schools was uniform in 5th and 6th year - all the 6th forms where I'm from are non uniform!

Ha! You’d find NI even odder then Tatty - schools in NI still have uniform in 6th year (although I know of one school where U6th can wear own clothes after Easter - so for the last few weeks of term and then for their exams.) and from my experience at least, uniform regulations are far stricter in NI than they are in Scotland. I know at my DC’s old school in Scotland boys could grow facial hair and uniform rules weren’t that strict. That would be totally forbidden in most schools in NI - even in 6th year. DS’s school for instance doesn’t allow boys to have any facial hair, or a hair cut less than a no.2, or with hair covering the collar. DD’s school (all girls) also has strict rules on hairstyles, piercings and uniform which apply from first to sixth form. Even when they can wear their own clothes after Easter they have certain regulations they still have to follow. I never came across rules as strict in the whole time we lived in Scotland

All schools I know of in Scotland which have uniform gave it right the way up through the school until you leave.

Personally I'm not keen on the idea of packing 16 year old off to college with less supervision - certainly wouldn't have been the right environment for DS.

I live bang on the Hampshire/Berkshire border. Berkshire schools have sixth forms, Hampshire schools do not. Both sides of the border there is a massive shift post GCSEs Hampshire children coming to Berkshire schools, Berkshire children going to Hampshire colleges, Berkshire children moving school all permutations go on.
My DD is in year 11 70% of her friends in both Hampshire and Berkshire private and state are moving in September. They will travel across a wide area.

@PineappleDanish that's what I used to think, before I started living and teaching in a sixth-form college area. Schools sixth forms stereotype colleges as being a total free for all, and not places for academic success. When all the DC go to a sixth form college, and expectations are as high as they are here, the vast majority step up to the plate and grow up - and go on to do exceptionally well academically and socially.

Looking back, I realise how much better I would have settled into university had I had that halfway step. Success at A-level and beyond is about independent study, and a fully structured day for 16-19 students doesn't help them to build the skills that they need for fully independent life away from home.

You have to legally be in some form of education until you’re 18 so an apprenticeship if you choose not to do A-Levels or B-tec.

College has its pros and cons, but it was the right choice for ds and he’s more than ready (coronavirus not withstanding) for uni next year.
The leaving age is still 16 in Scotland (in fact if your birthday is before Christmas you can still leave in the December of 4th year).

It's not schools 'chucking them out' or parents 'packing them off' It's a different system, and one which suits a lot of students at that age. Colleges are often able to offer a wide range of subjects which aren't all available at all school sixth forms. Besides, the less rigid atmosphere of college can be a good step towards university life or leaving home altogether. Not all 16 and 17 year-olds need to be in school uniform and micromanaged in order to function.

We still have grammar schools in my area which have 6th form entry criteria. About 40% of the boys at DS school don’t get the required grades to stay on so quite a big change.

One good thing about the jiggling is that the 6th forms are mixed after 5 years of single sex. It tends to be the girls who apply to join the boys school & take up most of those spaces vacated by the 40% of boys who didn’t get the required grades.

There are also slightly different A levels offered by the different schools encouraging a bit of movement too to get the subjects you want.

The school where I work has a 6th form college where the students are more or less still at school; have to be in all day, have assemblies, have a ‘dress code’, they’re very managed still. I would have hated it!

I went to a 6th form college that was very much - come to your lessons, wear what you want, do whatever in between. However, it had the highest rate of Oxbridge entry in the area, much better than any of the private school 6th forms in the town. 🤷🏻‍♀️

I prefer the 6th form college model as I don’t think I could have struck out another two years of school. And it did help with the transition to university.