How would it be different right now if Labour had won the last General Election?

[Dobbytheelf]

I've seen posts on Facebook from people who are saying that Boris is doing a shit job and that a vote for the Tories was a vote against the NHS etc from friends I know are very Labour and praising posts from people who were very vocally Conservative during the Election. There's nothing very specific though and I don't want to ask on there but if anyone on here has strong feelings either way what do you think would be different if Corbyn had won and was PM? I don't think I'm particularly intelligent on such matters and I don't have a strong affiliation to any party really so I'm interested to know what others who are/ do think. Is BJ doing a good job and could JC have done better? What would Jeremy Corbyn and his cabinet be putting in place now do you think?

JC would still be sitting on the fence and saying "oh maybe we should do something, but I'm not sure...."

Labour voter here. They wouldn't have been in power long enough for our situation to be significantly different.

As for the leadership, neither Corbyn nor Boris is the person I'd choose to lead us through this crisis, but for different reasons. Gordon Brown would've done a good job, or if it were to be a Tory, John Major.

My view - Corbyn would already have pushed us into recession by borrowing money for “routine” public spending. As a result, we would be far worse placed to borrow to cover the costs of the pandemic.

For me, that was always the irony of Corbyn. By promising to spend more on the NHS (money we don’t have and couldn’t easily raise through tax), he’d actually have spent less, since many economists were predicting recession under Labour’s spending plans.

You tell yourself that @Balhammom when tory policies lead to more preventable deaths.

And we do have the money.

Money invested in the NHS is like buying an insurance policy on your house. You dont like spending the money and it probably won't burn down but you pay anyway because if it does ever burn down without that insurance you're truly fucked.

@Pelleas don’t often see Brown mentioned warmly but I agree he had the mettle for this. Actually I think Thatcher could have hacked it (and I loathe her) - she had the authority, she was a pragmatist, intelligent and decisive.

Over the pond-I’m devastated for the US. Their president is murderously incompetent. Absolutely anyone else would be better than Trump right now.

@wafflyversatile

Nice sentiment but try backing it up with some economic reasoning.

Where is this money you say we have? Please can you post a link to the relevant budget / tax calculations?

If Corbyn had taken over on day one I doubt it would have helped or hindered. Most decisions are being taken on expert advice anyway. I suspect that someone firmer than either of them would have been better.

Had labour been in power for the last few years then perhaps the NHS would be in better shape, but I'm not sure of that to be honest. Were we not saying decades ago that we were throwing money at it and it was going downhill anyway?

Labour has a new leader, Keir Starmer.

As a nation we are obsessed with not paying tax for personal gain. Other European countries have higher tax rates on income and fundamentally more robust health services.

JC would have increased tax, something the Tory party refuse to do. Even someone earning £75k a year considers himself as a low earner, and doesn’t want to pay more tax for things like the NHS...yet will proudly clap on their doorstep

I’d actually rather pay more tax, friends and family that work in NHS would rather pay more tax and have a better service.

I’ve got one friend asking companies to support the homeless with food

Were one of the richest nations on earth. We are fabulously rich yet spend less on the nhs than most rich countries.

Main differences

1. We would have more ventilators as labour would have signed up to the EU procurement scheme and would not have pretended to loose the email.
2. We would be better prepared as labour would not have initially decided on a herd immunity stratrgy and then done a u turn at the last moment which meant they were not able to procure tests in time.
3. We would have manufactured more ventilators as labour would not have turned down smaller companies who offered to produce then just so they could give the contact to one of their largest donors dyson.

Virus?

What virus? There wouldn’t have been any such things as a virus had Labour win the election.

I blame Corbyn more than everyone, so many years of such feeble and blinded opposition paved the way for a demagogue like Boris to end up in power. He should have stepped down YEARS before he did, but then, he was also a demagogue too oblivious to his own worth so he just carried on.

I'd go further TheMother and blame the unions etc as well who have kept him in power and following a path that was never going to win.

In terms of richest countries (GDP per capita), we are 21st and falling (IMF, 2019). In terms of healthcare spend per capita, we are ranked 12th (OECD, 2019). Many of those ranked higher have v different geographies (eg US, Canada, NZ, the Scandinavian countries) and older populations. Therefore, the suggestion that we underspend on healthcare is usually peddled by those who have no knowledge of the relevant figures.

We are already a high spender. Those, like Corbyn, who want to keep ploughing many in tend to struggle with this. I’m aware of relatively few respected economists who take that view.

I'd also blame people who want something for nothing. Want tax cuts and more services. I know there are companies etc ripping the piss that need taken care off majorly. But the attitude in this country is all about take and no thought as to how things are paid for.

Much as I hate the SNP, I have no problem paying more tax but would like to see it spent properly.

The NHS is also a black hole, it doesn't matter how much is chucked at it it would still need more. It's filled with inefficiencies, poor spending and like everywhere, it's not all filled with conscientious employees. Obviously depends on where you live, but most pay scales aren't that bad and the terms and conditions are better than most folk in private industry have.

Yes, it has it's faults and some people are very unrewarded but believe me there are people in a lot worse situations.

I smile when I think of TM and DC and how they will feel like brexit was a gift and they thank fuck for it every single day.

@Chocolatedaim very well said.

Re rishi's expenses - his official ones are of course a matter of public record

https://www.mpsexpenses.info/#!/mp/851

an emergency basic income would be so much simpler and probably cheaper overall too

@x2boys no those of us who rightly complain the nhs underfunded by tories for too long actually have very long memories. Because the current issues actually go back to thatchers day, I was actually working in nhs when the junior dr crisis was happening and saw the effects and those of us who are true labour at heart also say that the continued decimation of the nhs under "new labour" was simply a continuation of that.

We haven't had a true labour govt in this country for over 40 years its time for a change!

@Balhammom what utter nonsense! The tories are still spending plenty they just (as they always do) give it to the already wealthy! It's not just a case of raising more money to fund the nhs, other key public services and supporting the poor its about NOT spending it on people who don't bloody need it!

The tories have given massive tax cuts away!

"There's no magic money tree" is bollocks!

There was a magic money tree for

Brexit

Buying off the dup to prop up a marginal govt

Many tax cuts for people who don't actually need them

The utter farce that's been UC which COULD have made people's lives better but which they've poured money into making as punitive as possible

There's money there for what they WANT to spend on

Actually I think Thatcher could have hacked it (and I loathe her) - she had the authority, she was a pragmatist, intelligent and decisive I agree. She was a nightmare but not as bad as the dithery gutless ineffectual prats we've got leading us now! At least with her you knew where you stood and she didn't fuck about! She got things done. She'd have locked us down AGES ago and it would have been done in such a way that the numbers of people piss taking over eg flooding the beaches wouldn't have happened.

Trump?! Good god the man is as you say dangerously incompetent. Not only is his lack of competent leadership going to be immediately deathly for a HUGE number of Americans but I can see USA tourist income dropping massively as the place will become a no go area for visitors from other countries due to the virus risk. Not least because I can absolutely see him saying something monumentally stupid regarding a vaccine which will stoke up the anti vaxers even more and the uptake there won't be nearly good enough.

No difference whatsoever in that it was about 3 months ago. No political party can transform anything in 3 months. Especially bumbling, indecisive Mr Corbyn.

No government was prepared for a pandemic, because nobody predicted it.