How can I 'pitch' remote working/WFH to an employer?

[PinkMingo]

Hi everyone,

I've applied for a what is essentially my dream job. It matches up with my professional experience, qualifications, interests, values, the lot. The only fly in the ointment is that it's based in Central London and I'm based in the (far) Westcountry, with a DP in an established full-time, permanent position down here who I don't want to have to move for my sake. Our way of life here is also ideal and suits us really well - we have a house, a dog, family nearby and don't want to re-locate to the middle of London.

Without wanting to be too outing my saying exactly what the 'dream' job is, it's worth saying that the vast, vast majority of people who do this job work remotely - it's something that you can do anywhere there's an internet connection, essentially. Many of them are freelance - it's like gold dust to get a salaried position like this with a company, with all the stability and progression opportunities that brings.

It was first advertised a couple of months ago and I enquired then about WFH. The company said no. I thought I'd hedge my bets and apply anyway. They came back to me to say they were stopping the recruitment process and readvertising the position with an added element of responsibility - so it's now like Dream Job 2.0 as far as I'm concerned.

I'm taking the fact that they contacted me about readvertising/reapplying as a potentially good thing, but I wonder whether it would be worth making a case not for complete remote working, as that didn't go down well, but perhaps two days in London, three WFH?

If any of you have managed to negotiate a WFH agreement with your employer or with a new/potential employer, how did you do it? If you're able to give any advice or tips, I'd be really very grateful!

If there was ever a time to ask to wfh now is it.

true - nothing ventured and all that! Good luck!!

Loads of people who'd usually be in offices are being asked to work from home at the moment anyway, so they might see how well it works.

Well you’ve nothing to lose.

I guess one angle would be that if you’re WFH from the West-Country they wouldn’t need to pay you the London salary I assume the job has been advertised with? So from that point of view employing you might be quite a bit cheaper than employing someone in London - if it’s a business that relies on profits etc then pointing that out might make the idea sound favourable to them?

Thank you all for your responses. I've been wondering about the virus and whether it will change our working patterns in the longer term. Obviously I'd rather there was no such thing as coronavirus and things were just carrying on as normal, but it might have implications for the way we work in the future.

BillysMyBunny, that's an interesting suggestion, I can definitely try that angle too! Thank you

Does the salary (with or without London weighting) warrant the eye-watering cost of trains twice per week?

I think id wait until they offered me the post before broaching WFH further. Let them be sure they want you before you start putting 'difficulties' forward.

In the meantime research the benefits to employers and businesses (not staff...) of home working, so you can start marshalling your arguments. It'll fit well with your resesrch into the actual company - what are it's mission, vision, culture, how does WFH fit those.

Thank you, DisplayPurposesOnly. It's a very good salary for my industry but twice-weekly trains would take out a chunk each month, definitely. I was thinking of going up and staying overnight and coming back, so doing one round trip per week but two days working. If that were to happen, I'd essentially be looking to prove that I was reliable/productive/dependable to WFH full-time.

I think you're right about not broaching the subject again until if I'm offered the position. As I said in my OP, the cat's out of the bag because I did mention it a couple of months back and got a flat 'no' in response, but I've effectively applied for the job twice since then, so I'm very much interested and (hopefully) a good candidate.

Really good idea about researching ideas about WFH being beneficial to employers and companies. I've started putting together a rough proposal so I've got something to build on if it comes to that!

I really agree with PP. now is the very time to ask for flexible working. I'd be candid about the travel etc. If you're clear during the recruitment process, you can fall back on tht should they suddenly be asking you to come in every day.

I think this will stand you in good stead and be firm that it's part of your expectation.

All the best!! ⭐️

Babymamaroon, thank you! Do you think I should broach the subject again if I get an interview, then? I was thinking of preparing a really thorough/well-considered proposal about how/why it will benefit the organisation, as DisplayPurposesOnly said.

Apart from the current exceptional circumstances, it seem v unlikely they’ll agree to homeworking most of the time. If they were keen on that the ad would have been different.

Many people rent a room to work in London for 3, 4 or 5 nights a week.

Wouldn’t mention it at all unless you’re offered the role.

I wouldn't discuss it again unless you are offered the role. The company said no when you enquired and you want to be in the strongest position possible when you negotiate.

Would assume they will say no as that is by far the most likely response, unless they have few or no other good candidates.

If they really want you they will consider homeworking. If you are miles ahead of next candidate you will have a good chance. In my experience people are wary of homeworking because they don't trust people to be productive so in interview I would try and demonstrate a highly productive individual.

I part time WFH and it’s great (NHS). You could talk to them about reducing carbon footprint by being able and willing to Skype into meetings from home and let them know what a typical day will look like.

Several years ago I applied for a job I London. I lived 2 hours commute away.

I was offered the position and told them I'd absolutely LOVE the job, but wanted to work from home and £5k more.

They wanted me enough that they offered what I wanted. However I definitely wouldn't have taken the job if it wasn't working from home. I would have been negotiable on the £5k but they agreed almost right away :)

It all depends how much they want you and how much you want the job!

Always know your worth!!

I've done it. In my last corporate job, I negotiated WFH, and then subsequently part-time working, both with the same organisation.

I'd already been working there full-time for three years before I asked, so I'd built up some goodwill.

When I made the case, it had to be primarily based on what the benefits to the business were from me WFH. The fact that it was more convenient for me, or cheaper, didn't matter (to them). So you might find that they want you to outline the business case.

So for me I brought up some stats about raised productivity from home working in my specialism. I made an argument about cognitive focus -- my office was open plan and noisy, and my work required concentration which for me meant quiet. Also, me being based at home meant I was closer to one of the major clients, which meant I was minutes away on foot if there was a last-minute meeting or review. The business could also give my office desk to someone else.

It also helped that I requested home working at a time when the office was groaning with too many people and not enough desks. Finally, I was canny about who I asked; I went via the operations director, and presented it as solving an operational issue. (Ops people love you forever when you go to them with solutions!) Once I had him on-side, getting my own manager to agree was more straightforward.

Be careful with the angle about reduced salary. You're effectively negotiating with yourself there. The job has a salary attached, and if you are the right person for that job you deserve that salary. The practicalities of how you work can be discussed. But don't do yourself out of thousands of pounds voluntarily.

Because, to be honest, in all likelihood you're not cheaper than a London-based employee. There will be additional costs to the business for home-based working, whether that's setting up specific IT systems or attaining any relevant clearances. Certain expenses might be higher for you than for an office-based employee, for example. (I'm just speculating here, but it's worth considering all of this for your specific situation.)

Also, the costs to you, in terms of travel, meals and accommodation, will still be considerable, and potentially comparable to commuting; just in bigger and more infrequent chunks. Most people I know who work during the week in London spend many hundreds of pounds a month on this stuff, some into the thousands. Worth bearing in mind.

I know 2 that do similar but they both wfh mon and fri come up early tues and leave early thurs. they had built up trust prior though
So maybe a 3 month plan then a 6 month etc

Thank you, everyone. I agree that it definitely depends on whether I'm a very good candidate/how much they want to employ me in particular. It's all hypothetical, they may have thrown my application in the bin by now!

The reduced salary point is interesting - saving them money might be an incentive for them, but you're right, PlausibleSuit, if that's what the work's worth then that's what should be paid for it.

It's really interesting to hear that some of you have negotiated WFH. I agree with PPs that the organisation's most likely response will be another 'no', but I'm also glad to hear that it has been done before!

A friend of mine does the other way around - lives in London and works for company in the West Country (4 days a week). She wfh 3 days a week, is in W. Country 1 day a week. If you are the one they want for the job they should be open to a discussion about the options.

But it really depends on the job, if you're managing a team and/or have to around for client/external meetings etc

I've negotiated 50-50 but only because I've worked with the same team for few years. I did negotiate salary but made it clear that if I were to go to the market I'd get considerably more but that I like working for this team & appreciate their trust & flex. They knew they couldn't get my experience for their salary level so flex was part of my package itself.
It was a win win & everyone was happy.

If they make you an offer you can accept with a condition of x days remote or 5-10k higher package to cover your commute on those days. They will accept remote if you offer it as 'discount' since you are saving commute cost.