Summer born dd cries every day before school

[Aflowerandatree]

First time poster, so apologies if this is the wrong place but could really do with some advice/personal experiences please.

My dd is 4 years old, born end August so one of, if not the youngest in school. I had originally planned on delaying her start until she was 5 but the school offered part time hours, and kept saying she may have to skip year 6 and go straight to secondary school, which obviously really worried me. I admit I (and dh) should have done our own research but we felt lost and thought the school knew best...

Anyway, fast forward to now (March) and dd is still part time. Every time we suggest extending her hours she begs not to. She has cried every morning bar one since January. Sometimes, she hides under the table holding onto the table legs, screaming and begging not to go to school.
Almost makes herself sick. The teachers say she's settled when there, but very quiet still. I'm worried we sent her too early and she wasn't/isn't ready emotionally for school. I want to take her out and start again in September (I'm a SAHM) but not sure if my own feelings are clouding my judgement (I walk home from drop off crying most days.) And how complicated that would be?

Any words of wisdom greatly appreciated. Thank you.

Could someone else drop off for two weeks.... See if that makes a difference

School are saying that she is settled though. Does she have a friend who can come back to yours for tea? That would mean staying in school though until the end of the day. Would that encourage her to want to stay in?

Is she an only child? This could be about her not having to share toys at home, but she does at school, or her 1 to 1 attention from you which she won't get at school. If she has a younger sibling she sees them staying home when she goes to school. It could just be separation from you.

Sometimes this isn't about birthdays, or summer borns (my sons are May and June) this is about other things. As it stands she gets to come home before anyone else, so maybe she sees school as a choice. What will you do if this is still happening in a year?

The way I thought deferment worked was apply for a school place at the normal time, then apply for the deferment. If the deferment is successful then you have your school application withdrawn. So the same applies again to secondary school.

In year 6 Ds2 had a reading age of 16 and aced out his SATs, therefore in year 5 he would have been considered completely able to cope with work if he started secondary school. Plus as he was my second child I knew the workload from secondary.

I would definitely take her out and look at your choices. Is home schooling an option? You would have plenty of opportunities to socialise with various activities but she would have you there at the same time.

Eek, sorry I can't reply to everyone but I really appreciate your advice/suggestions. Dh has suggested changing his work hours and taking her to school but when we tentatively mentioned it she practically exploded! But she was already upset so might suggest it again during a calmer period.

She has a younger sister so there's definitely an element of jealousy that she gets to stay with me while dd has to go to school.

It's so difficult, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I could do it over again I'd delay her to start reception at 5. I'm just so very sad

No advice but my DC had a child in their class (a little bit older than DC) who wins be seen in the playground every morning crying and clinging on to their mum. This went on all through reception, and year one. In years two and three, it was tears... If mum came into school for anything (school play, for example) child would cling into her, sobbing.
In school, child was absolutely fine.
It has just started to calm down a bit now, almost halfway through Y4.

I'd discuss with the SENCO. It may be something, it may be nothing, but we are over halfway through the school year and the vast majority of children are settled into the routine by now.

DS is generally OK about school and invariably good in school but he's been diagnosed with high funtioning autism at 9 (referral made at 7 after the Hell that was SATS) He masks through a school day and the cracks show at home particularly when he's tired (start/ end of term in particular). With hindsight, there was more than just being a tamtrumy toddler, but he managed the relaxed pace of nursery well and flared up in yR. He also struggled to progress with reading and writing, which quickly became apparent was due to dyslexia and dyspraxia, but not assessable until 8. He had a history of SALT intervention and that kind of paper trail helped.

There is far more than one reason why children struggle to settle into school, but it is worth considering the bigger picture incase there is more than being the youngest in the year at play.

I'd discuss with the SENCO. It may be something, it may be nothing, but we are over halfway through the school year and the vast majority of children are settled into the routine by now.

It's worth noting that summer born children are far more likely to be diagnosed with learning difficulties and SEND than other children. Not because they necessarily have SEND, but because we expect too much of them too young.

www.google.com/amp/s/schoolsweek.co.uk/summer-born-pupils-at-a-disadvantage/amp/

They're also more likely to suffer depression and anxiety.

It's so difficult, hindsight is a wonderful thing. If I could do it over again I'd delay her to start reception at 5. I'm just so very sad

Since I moved to a country that waits till children are at least 5 to send them to school it's really made me realise how young 4 is to be going to school full time, wearing a uniform, staying awake all day, etc.

RiftGibbon, that's one of my concerns, that she's always going to be like this, and that's not healthy for anyone.

BecauseReasons, that doesn't surprise me at all. Until quite recently I had family members asking if dd ever talked because she was so quiet, like it's abnormal. At home she's full of beans, incredibly eloquent, creative, enjoys playing word games etc.

It's worth noting that summer born children are far more likely to be diagnosed with learning difficulties and SEND than other children

There are so many other factors that have not been looked at apart from the child's birthday. There was more info on this, not the one linked above. Love the fact that they even mention in that article the winter birthdays of the ministers, Tony Blair is a May birthday.

In the school I volunteer in we have, SENDCo, we have a SEMH (social, emotional and mental health) who deal with all the behavioural issues and we have a "barriers to learning" support team which deals with children who are struggling because maybe their dog died, or Grandma has terminal cancer, parents are getting divorced or they have fallen out with their best friend etc.

Maybe there is something in the mindset of parents of summer borns who say well they are so little and so the child doesn't try. I think the biggest factor affecting children is poverty, so they are hungry when they come into school, they might share a bedroom with several other siblings so don't sleep as well. The fact that children in receipt of Free School Meals face the biggest hurdles in education, which is why Pupil Premium was brought in.

Re your Dh taking her to school, I would do it just one day at first. But I would firstly tell her when this is happening but I would also make sure that you leave the house with the younger child first a good half an hour before your DD is going to leave with her Dad. That way you are not left behind in the house. Make up an appointment. See if she behaves any differently. The fact that she reacted to the suggestion maybe suggests this is about you.

I was and still am a SAHM, my children are teenagers now but I am in a primary school every week.

I was that child. My mum kept me going for half days till I was 5. Looking back I've never coped well with large groups of people, and I remember feeling overwhelmed and tired.

I'm not sure if taking her out completely won't make school seem like that big, bad thing in her mind.... so that would be my worry. I agree that she doesn't sound ready for what they expect of her though. Is a different school woth smaller classes an option?

Probably an unpopular view...I taught P1 for years and every year there were 1 or 2 children like this. It was so sad to watch and, to be clear, my personal view is that the Europeans have got it right with later school start and more time to play. That said, the morning crying and distress was usually fed by the parents feeding into it. Children were always fine within 30 minutes (usually sooner) and quite happily playing with friends. The more the parents talked about / coddled etc the longer and worse it got. It always resolved itself within a week after the parents had made the decision to stop feeding into it ... I'm not saying this is the case here by any means. Just another view.

My summer born was the same and still doesn't want to go to school in year one.

Does the school use tapestry? If so that should give you a fair idea of what she's like during the day.

My lo was generally fine after ten minutes and it was about getting the school on board with how they received lo that helped.

I would also suggest that her level of anxiety is outside of the usual range, so actually speaking with the senco would be well advised.

And given the levels of anxiety, knowing my own child, I could see that pulling out and starting again - which for you would be the second time she's down this, would have possibly been more harmful longterm and have sent my child the wrong message that effectively you can opt out of school. Which unless you'd homeschool isn't imo in their best interests. Believe me I struggled.

I however had the school on board and had a deferred place available. With the lea on board etc as well, due to my lo having been seen by paeds since young.

In your position, the school is under no obligation to read it your child in to reception and may not even have a place. Especially as they gave the option of part-time I think you said. And I know that as a governor of our school, that without the backing of paeds etc our school wouldn't allow deregistering and then reregistering the next year as would feel its too detrimental to their social and emotional wellbeing as the friends made would now be a year ahead etc.

Obviously you could shop around for different schools. But my advice is if your child is actually settling at school then in your place I'd weather the storm at home.

Good luck.

I know a little girl who went through the same thing and the GP recommended a change in diet. Lots more fruit and veg (not a dig in any way I'm sure you feed her very well!) and more water.

Worked like a charm. She's happy as anything going to school now. We would never have put the two things together.

I can't help, but I'd be really interested to hear what you decide and how your DD gets on: I have a summer born DD who we have already delayed, so she's starting school in Sept at five. Sadly, she has always been upset about going to nursery (two days a week) and after a short time of being OK, is back to sobbing at drop off. She's fine throughout the day apparently, but I am dreading September when school will be daily and part time won't be an option.

I suppose if anything my point is that the extra time may not make any difference and some kids are just more anxious and need other approaches?

I have two late August DDs who are now teenagers. The eldest started afternoons only for a term and the youngest went all day from day one. They were both a bit clingy but luckily the reception teachers were very skilled at dealing with it. I seem to remember they recruited one of the teaching assistants to help. We used to get to school quite early so they were one of the first children there and the teaching assistant always had an "important " task that she needed my DDs help with. More often than not this worked a treat as they felt needed and it gave them a focus. Didn't have to be anything too taxing e.g. setting out some equipment or collecting something from the office. It might be worth trying something like that. I also think you have to try and keep your anxiety hidden (as far as possible which I know is more tricky than it sounds). Have you had a chat to school - they are probably used to dealing with this and may have suggestions- apologies if you have already done so.

When my DDs started we did consider delayed start but staff at Preschool felt she would be better going up with her peers and I think they were right. For a little reassurance both my DDs are doing well academically and compared to many of their friends are surprisingly mature considering they are both the youngest in their school year. I do think they start school too early in the UK though and in an ideal world I think it would have been nice to have them at home for a bit longer. Good luck.

Have uh joined the Flexible school admissions for summer borns Facebook group?

You'll get the best advice on their.

*there!

I would try a different setting. I know that the primary/junior schools local to me all have a different reputation for being best suited to different types of children. Ie, the school that is so small that each child can be treated as an individual; the school that is great for the academically able; the primary school that is huge so is a good preparation for secondary etc...

We're at a different stage to you, but DD (nearly 3) wasn't happy about going to nursery and was just like a rabbit in headlights there. There were too many kids in a small room being boisterous and DD just couldn't cope well.

We moved childcare settings in December to a new nursery with far more space and smaller groups so that when you open the door you're not hit by an intimidating barrage of mayhem. DD practically runs from the car down the path to nursery now and I feel so much better about leaving her knowing that she is now confident in her space and she is now actually thriving there.

My 13 year old October born, bright intelligent child dislikes school. Actually she loves learning but hates the school environment. The requirement to behave like she was enjoying school was so exhausting for her when she was at primary. Teachers would get her to say what she liked at school, was she Ok, did she have a good day.. all of which she would say yes to as that was the only acceptable answer. On many occasions we have been told to help her fit in more. I respond that it is not required for her learning for her conform with the expectation to be an extrovert, to accept the constant noise levels and low level bad behaviour that she finds intolerable. Of course, she needs to learn how to cope but space should be made for introverts too and quiet space rules enforced so they are not excluded from enjoying school.

My daughter was fine for the first 3 months and then stopped wanting to go to school and became very clingy. She performed 'happy' at school though. In the end, I took her out of school in year 3 for a while, we had a fantastic pastoral care head who allowed her to be recorded as 'education offsite' while we worked through it.

School is still not a great place for her, the leap to secondary was a nightmare and she still finds the noise, the behaviour of others and the inconsistency of teachers very hard to deal with. We looked at smaller schools but she needs a large enough pool to find her tribe and a mix of sporty girls so she can play football and quiet studious ones she can go to the library with..

I have read a lot and I do think she displays some autistic spectrum traits in her personality but nothing that would merit investigation and any intervention that has been suggested by school involves changing herself.. learning how to cope better in class which is all about her being wrong and her fitting in. While coping strategies are important, her sense of her own values, beliefs and trust in her own sense of self is more important and I do not want her to feel that she is 'wrong' because she does not agree with everyone else. There is room in the world for acceptance of all shapes and sizes and girls come under enough pressure to conform.

Sorry.. I am rambling!! If you can, I would take her out of school.

My summer born boy was always wary of new situations and struggled socially until he was about 14 because he was young. He often had friends in the year below and really looked at the older kids like he could not figure out their thought processes. He has lots of lovely close friendships now, again, a large school has allowed the quieter ones to come out of the woodwork and find each other.

Education has moved from the 'be quiet', 'open your books' and 'praise for good work' to a much more collaborative, interactive, multi faceted way of learning which is great for many children but there are a few who prefer a quiet environment.

@ChateauMargaux you have hit the nail on the head. The learning environment has changed so much, we used to sit in rows facing the blackboard, now they sit on tables in little groups facing each other.

Ds1 is summer born and introvert. He was always quiet in school compared to home. He is now 17. Still struggles to talk to teachers!

Ds2 is summer born and extrovert, happily chatted to complete strangers from 3 years old, thrives on the in your face, bright display boards, the energy from other children, a colaborative working environment of a school.

I deliberately chose a large 3 form entry primary compared to my own teeny, less than 20 to a class primary experience because secondary was overwhelming for me. I too am introvert (there is a great Ted talk on YouTube about introverts) and need quiet time to reset.

I know people keep saying defer entry but school places have already been allocated for September 2020 and the school may argue it is full. This would mean looking at other schools and doing an in-year application. Very complicated.

As suggested, I would let her Dad take her to school whilst you leave the house way before her with her sibling and see if that makes a difference. I have seen lots of children cling to their Mums crying, before being completely fine in school all day. Hell my own child would grab onto the railings and had to be prised off for nursery! He was still fine within about 40 seconds of entering the building because I watched through the window. Still made me feel like shit.

Thanks everyone! Lots of really useful suggestions, so thank you. And differing opinions, which isn't surprising. If dd had been this bad during the autumn term we would have taken her out of school, no question, but because we're so far in to the school year I do worry that that would cause more problems. Especially in terms of what happens come September. And she does have a little group of friends she likes/who like her.

She's only seen me upset 2 or 3 times, when she's been especially upset and I've been unable to hold in my tears. Usually I'm bright and breezy with her, reassuring her that she's safe and liked at school, and talk about the fun things she'll do. Her teacher is wonderful but she has 30 children to look after.

Op, I have an August DC too, who is very very sensitive. I started dc in nursery at 3 believing it would help, however dc cried every day during that year. I used to cry on the way home alot and teachers would call me to say DC had settled down as they had seen I was upset. I didn't, despite this, take dc out, and dc went on to start at the school connected to the nursery with most of the kids from there. Didnt settle all through reception and alot of year 1, then started to accept it more toward the end of that year, however even now in year 5 DC is not a lover of school but does accept the need to go and the reasons why. Struggles alot and is still very very sensitive and doesn't mix well outside one or two friends. I believe some kids just don't ever take to school no matter when you start them, and you might be as well to ride his out. I dread to think how secondary will go but it's something we will tackle together.

ChateauMargaux, your post is very astute. I truly believe dd is an introvert, similar to myself and dh, and while we as adults have learnt coping strategies and to a certain extent learnt to mask our feelings (sadly,) dd can't, and shouldn't, have to change/hide her true self. But school seems to expect all children to want to charge about screaming in the playground, and work in groups, and basically be extroverts. I just don't know how to help her navigate that world

@JuniperSnowberry I love that ted talk.

@Aflowerandatree. There have been many days I have sobbed. There was a time when i just couldn't separate from her pain. She is very attached to me and while.she can cope without me, she doesn't want to. Sending her in with her Dad would have just made her feel like her feelings were being dismissed and not valid. I took her to a lovely child psychologist when she was 8 and lots of the things I have said were things I took on board from that.

I also do other 'people' work and much of what I do is about listening, allowing people to be heard, saying that our feelings are valid and not trying to force people to fit.