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Original poster

What are my mum’s rights

44 replies

Carehomedilemma · 09/03/2020 15:09

Hello

Does anyone know the legal position if somebody with dementia currently resident in a care home wants to return home. Can the LA refuse to discharge the person concerned and if so can they legally force them to stay in care.

My mother is currently in care and she has expressed that she would like to return home, I am trying to help her and looking at private care at home but my siblings think this is a bad idea as do the LA- what can I do which will avoid conflict? I don’t want to pursue the legal route but if there is one does anyone know what the legal position is please. Is there any way of coming to a resolution outside of court.

Of course there is a lot more in terms of the background to this but for now can anyone advise on where the law stands generally.

Thank you

OP posts:

Alonglongway · 10/03/2020 13:45

PP’s point about whether she has been through DoLS assessment is important. My parents both have dementia and are in a nursing home together. DoLS assessment Is conducted by an independent reviewer appointed by the local authority and it looks at the person’s ability to orient themselves in the world and keep themselves safe. It’s an important process as it steps outside the day to day questions of care and looks more widely at the person. This was very helpful in my mum’s case as it put my mind to rest about her being in the nursing home

heyjoeyitsestelle · 10/03/2020 13:50

My sympathies op- my Nan has it and has been in a home for approx 1 year now. She went from 3 carers a day and my grandad living with her- no that not being sufficient in a matter of months.
She also didn't want to be in the home, but a year on she now is non the wiser where home is.
While she was home my mum and her sister were sharing the care in between the carer visits and it completely burned them out.
If she is in a care home now then she has been assessed as needing to be. She needs 24 hour care- which sounds well backed up by the fact they are prepared to fight you on this.
I understand fully how horrible and frustrating it is as your mum gets upset and is unhappy. But as a pp said- her needs now outweigh her wants. And she needs to be kept somewhere safe with supervision.
Don't forget it is a progressive disease, it WILL get worse.

heyjoeyitsestelle · 10/03/2020 13:52

Also OP besides the dementia is she ill?
As her 'end of days' she wants to spend at home could be years.

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about these subjects:

Care homes Dementia & alzheimer's

Kittykatmacbill · 10/03/2020 15:05

Oh op. It must be heartbreaking my gran in a home kept asking to go home too, it turned out she meant back to her mum and dad, in the house that grew up in (and left in 1939).

BarbedBloom · 10/03/2020 15:36

What I would also advise to take into account is that if your siblings don't support this, it may likely all fall onto you. Are you prepared for that?

My nan didn't have dementia but by the end 3 times a day carers weren't cutting it. 15 mins a time.

Blackbear19 · 10/03/2020 16:33

OP who was her primary carer before now?
Has one of your siblings faught to get her a care place that you are happy to throw away?

Have they been doing shed loads of care as well as the carers?

My experience is trying to get a Care home place from LA is a fight and not given lightly.

Think carefully about what you do.

RB68 · 10/03/2020 16:39

It is a well known fact that many people with dementia will say this phrase, but actually what they want is the "feeling of home" somewhere they feel comfortable, close to those they love and with things they remember. I realised its a sense of home rather than the physicality of it and certainly for my Mum towards the end even though she was at home she would still say it as home was somewhere other as she no longr remembered the property where she was, to some extnt I felt it was a plea for the suffering to end and the ability to move on and go to what she saw next - in her view heaven etc. A very emotional time and heartwrenching to not be able to meet her desire for "home" in any way other than having friends and family around, saying the rosary and chatting over old events or times.

RB68 · 10/03/2020 16:43

I think if she is well cared for where she is and the home is a good one I would leave well alone, but look to do things that remind your Mum of other times, friends for a chat, tea and cake or other event she used to do regularly, prayer meting, get the priest or vicar in for a visit etc. Or even a visit home although this could be problematic if she thinks she is staying etc

If you go against SS you may find her subject to a care order or even sectioned so that her needs can be met etc

OVienna · 10/03/2020 16:44

If the local authority is considering legal action against you if you try to remove her, I'd take that as a strong clue she should stay where she is, OP.

I think it would be a great idea to get done counselling yourself to support you through this process. It sounds like it's taking a lot out of you

Quartz2208 · 10/03/2020 16:45

As lovely as it is that you want to follow your mums wishes moving her home with a private carer at this stage simply isnt feasible or in her best interests

VegetableMunge · 10/03/2020 16:46

Her capacity to make the decision to leave and whether the LA are obliged to pay for care at home if it's more expensive than residential care are two different issues.

Witchend · 10/03/2020 17:21

My gran had dementia. She would say she wanted to go home. She could sound very plausible speaking to you.
She would have gone into town by bus number 3 and bought bread and milk from the Corner shop. Come home and done some gardening-the potatoes are ready at the allotment and she'd dug them up and put them in the shed, and eaten fish fingers and chips for dinner:
Reality: Number 3 bus hadn't run for 10 years (she needed to change bus), the corner shop shut in 1965, she hadn't planted potatoes since she had the allotment (in 1970s) and she'd actually not had dinner either.

When she was taken into a home all the food she had in the house was pasta (best before 5 years ago) and lard and eggs in the freezer. She was also doing such fun activities as lighting the gas fire in the lounge (leaving the gas fully on while she did this) with a rolled up newspaper lit in the kitchen on the hob. At any point she was liable to forget what she was doing, or trip. The neighbours had to enter on more than one occasion to switch the gas off when she'd forgotten and the smell of gas exited the property.

Issue was that although she would have liked to stay at home she was not safe for her to be there without a full time carer. It wasn't fair on the neighbours either who could have been taken up with her gas or had their home destroyed by fire .

HappyHammy · 10/03/2020 17:39

Does anyone have poa for her finances and also for welfare. I hope your mum is comfortable at this difficult time. It sounds like the LA dont feel she would be safe at home. They may well apply to the Court of Protection on her behalf..once she has had a formal capacity assessment she might benefit from a IMCA review and an advocate.

PostNotInHaste · 10/03/2020 17:50

I would go very carefully and be 100% certain you are acting in your Mum’s best interests with this. These may not be what she is asking to do ie, go home and what you do now may severe implications on family relationships in the future.

My Mum wanted to go home. SS threatened my Brother with the Court of Protection if he removed her. He got a private capacity assessor and coached her so they let her go home to live in care. Disaster and she ended back where she started but never ever settled as learned she could kick off and get removed so went through a succession of care homes. It was quite sad as despite what she said she did actually settle at the first, her mobility increased and she made friends.

SS do not suggest residential care lightly so I would be very careful when making decisions at this stage.

JuanSheetIsPlenty · 10/03/2020 18:02

I have found a private career to visit her 3x a day.

I have several clients with dementia who have private carers calling 3 times a day. I am there during many of these visits. I can honestly say that you would give a goldfish more time and attention than my clients receive during these 3 daily visits. The middle of the day visit particularly. They arrive, say “hello, how are you”, sign the record book and say “see you at 4”. They are supposed to check client has taken their medication, assist with bathroom needs, warm up a meal or prepare a sandwich. This never happens. I’ve had to take on these things myself in some of the homes- I’m a cleaner! I’ve arrived in the afternoon to find clients have eaten nothing since the day before. It makes me so mad and I have reported to the families involved but it is denied and the nature of dementia means the client doesn’t always know themselves. I certainly wouldn’t trust the care of my elderly relatives to any of the “care” providers I’m familiar with.

helpfulperson · 10/03/2020 18:23

Couple of things.

Are you in England? If so the information about poa and capacity assessments is fine. If you are in Scotland it is slightly different but equivalent.

Come over to elderly parents board. Many of us have been through this.

Would she be happier if it was 'a temporary stay until you are better' many of us have used these white lies and it's ok to do that.

HazelBite · 10/03/2020 20:37

OP, my Dsis is always asking to go "home" she is always asking BIL to take her, when they are in the car she says "you need to take me to 29 Bedford Road, and we'll have dinner" This is actually the address where we grew up, not the home where she last lived with BIL.
So reluctant was my BIL to have her in a home that he had live in carers to assist him, she still, when anyones back was turned would wander off, start wandering about with knives, phone random numbers. etc etc.
The very fact you are being threatened with legal action should tell you something. Do you have POA, because if not the local authority could involve the Court of Protection.
OP despite the advice and views of the majority of posters on this thread I feel you are determined in your course of action to get your Mother home, and are being unrealistic about your Mothers ongoing needs.

heyjoeyitsestelle · 10/03/2020 20:42

What @JuanSheetIsPlenty said!! In abundance.

The carers my nan has were there for 10 mins max. Came to put her to bed at 7pm. Barely said hello. Even mixed up meds a couple of times. Only showered her if we were there to ask them to. And plenty more issues.

Please please carefully consider her best interests. Not her wishes.
Sorry you're going through this

ICouldHaveBeenAContender · 10/03/2020 20:54

MIL with dementia was in hospital after a fall. She was determined to go home, ie back to her own house. She had to be assessed for that specific decision, ie did she have capacity to make an informed decision about where she should live?

She was very plausible and tried to out-smart the assessors, by telling them - among other things - that her DH would look after her. He'd been dead 6 months at this point. Thankfully they concluded she didn't have capacity, as family all believed she needed 24 hour care We had observed the very good private carers doing 4 x 1 hour visits daily for over a year, and knew it would no longer be enough.

PP have said 'this is the best she will be'. They are right.

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