Does anyone have experience of hypernumeracy?

[Vallderama]

I was googling about kids with innate maths abilities and autistic traits this evening and came across this observed pattern which matches ds14 exactly. He's always had a huge facility with maths and since yr 1 at school physics also, classed as gifted, put forward for extra programmes, doing the GCSE early etc. However he struggled a lot socially when younger and had a couple of physical markers typical of autism too, but never enough to quite add up to a diagnosis. He's still a quirky individualistic thinker but now is happy with himself being like that. the autistic traits have calmed down a lot and are not problematic but the fascination with numbers and physics remains. He just sees numbers in a different way to how other people do.

I was ofc aware of all the rainman type clichés but actually it appears that other parents have observed similar patterns in their children, and it is a legitimate "thing", but there doesn't appear to be a lot of information about it on the internet.

So I thought I'd ask if anyone on Mumsnet has experience of this. Honestly when I read about it, it was like a lightbulb going off in my head. That this is absolutely ds.

He is at a mainstream school now with great grades and behaviour - but more interestingly, he is stronger in Literacy, reading comprehension,music, art etc

My oldest is also very strong in literacy, music and languages. But she does actually have to work at them, whereas with maths she just does it almost effortlessly.

My DH is definitely hypernumerate- and therefore, as others have said, very bad at explaining and helping with maths simply because it's so intuitive to him. In his case though, I don't think he's autistic, but simply very bright.

I had hyperlexia and taught myself to read when I was two. I’m not autistic.

My son was like this,he's in his mid twenties now, got a first in maths and philosophy and is now a secondary maths teacher. He's diagnosed dyspraxic. and certainly has autistic traits but was never formally diagnosed.

As a child he was obsessed with numbers and could (and still can) do huge calculations in his head.When asked how he would just say that the answers appeared in his head.

He's definitely not neurotypical but he is great fun, a fantastic teacher and a loving ,empathetic and generally wonderful man of whom I am hugely proud. He's a very good essay writer and keen reader too but has almost no visual imagination and thinks that he has aphantasia.

He's a one-off alright

Thank you everyone who has shared their experiences so far . It's been really interesting to hear about them and also to think that there does seem to be an observable pattern that many of us can see.

I am also really sorry to hear about people who have struggled due to lack of diagnosis and I hope that things improve for you.

I may be misunderstanding but I thought that one of the key aspects to an autism diagnosis was persistent and pervasive social difficulties? Along with obsessive thinking and sensory perceptual disturbances/difficulties?

Ds would have maybe just scraped in under all three when younger but it's far less problematic for him now. He still gets obsessions that come and go but he doesn't talk about them endlessly like he used to. Similarly, he now understands humour (this was a big problem for him up to about age eight as it made him so cross), can infer meaning (he was all over the place with that before) and is very good at reading the room due to genuinely being interested in people - all kinds of people, even rough/'popular' kids who on the face of things he doesn't have much in common with - he just takes them as they are and works with it.

I have spoken with him about the possibility of being assessed but he doesn't want to. We came close to it before because once out of the nurturing environment of yr 1 and 2 at primary he did have a hard time in yr 3 when his quirkiness together with the fact that he's a gentle chap by nature with lots of friends who are girls made him a target for a couple of older boys in particular. However tbh he sorted that out himself by giving one of them a complete pasting on the school field one lunchtime - very much provoked, I might add, the boy was strangling him not for the first time, and DS has never done anything like that before or since. I'd been back and forward to the school for months prior but it wasn't getting sorted and he'd obviously had enough.

Anyway this earned him enough respect to get a bit of breathing space and he carried on hanging out with the girls who basically made him their little pet and built up a solid circle of friends which he's also done at secondary school with his 'quirky and proud' persona.

@DareDevil223 your son sounds lovely. Ds is definitely a one-off as well and I'm so glad of it. I'd hate to have a boring kid.

Also he is spectacularly crap at lying. I mean, really really shit at it. He doesn't try very often but when he does it's completely transparent. This does make parenting easier.

@Vallderama I wouldn't swap him for another one. He was also a shit liar, really poor - we were laughing about that at the weekend.

Your son sounds really similar to mine .His obsessions and his compulsion to talk about them has pretty much disappeared as he's got older. He was always very definitely himself and seemed to be liked because of it. He's quite the introvert but does have some good friends.

Your DS sounds fabulous and I'm so glad you love and embrace his individuality. I'm great friends with my boy and he really is the light of my life.

@Daredevil223 yes, everything has got less as he's got older. His obsessions used to dominate - one particular one was that he insisted on communicating with me in Viking Runes for a month. Except all he did was write English words using viking letters, not even using viking words, so he'd just hand me bits of paper with frigging gibberish on them, and I'd have to ask him to 'translate' which meant him reading every letter out in English, because that's what he thought 'translating' meant. I mean, that was an actual pita. Now it's more like he'll just get interested in something and go on a bit but it doesn't take over. Similarly, there are certain textures he doesn't like, but it's more along the lines of preferences rather than outright avoidance. And while he still likes to have a plan for the day, again it's more a preference rather than something he has to have. It's like little echoes of what used to be overriding aspects for him.

You sound like you have a fantastic relationship with your boy; it's just lovely to hear that. Our sons do sound very similar! Especially just being themselves.

Oh the obsessions! But they can be very interesting. Viking runes would test me though.

My boy's latest obsession is minecraft which is at least a little more 'obviously' a young boy thing. But an earlier obsession was rubber balls. That went on for ages.

Oh!!! i have just rememebred... talking of numbers.... DS used to memorise long numbers in a single glance. That was how he managed to buy himself stuff off online when he was about 5. He memoised all my credit card numbers. Thankfully he does not do that anymore!! (Otherwise we would probably own Minecraft).

I may be misunderstanding but I thought that one of the key aspects to an autism diagnosis was persistent and pervasive social difficulties? Along with obsessive thinking and sensory perceptual disturbances/difficulties?

As a parent it can be hard to see it. The social difficulty thing... it can be very subtle. I’m now in the process of getting my daughter assessed for ASD. She’s 8. And she has always been the most extrovert, articulate child imaginable. She’s the opposite of her brother. And although I knew she was “different” and she’s bloody hard work to parent (I won’t bore you with her weird traits) ASD just wasn’t on the table at all. She was too social, too at ease interacting with people.

But now I’m starting to see things differently. Although she’s like a mini adult and launches into conversations with adults with ease, I think she might struggle with her peers sometimes. I think she can be socially inappropriate sometimes too.

So, long story short, what you might understand to be a persistent and pervasive social difficulty can be subtle and hard to spot, especially if you’re they’re parent. It’s easy to have a fixed idea of what autism is, and the difficulties being severe and obvious, but that isn’t always the case. Especially if the child has learned to mask their quirks as they’ve got older.

My ds is 6. I don't know if it is numbers, but he can look at a lego manual once, then make the model without looking again. He is good at maths, but not like some of those mentioned on this thread.

My ex had that. He could do the most ridiculous sums in his head, he said the number just comes to him and he knows it's right. He can see rows and rows of numbers in reports and the one that is wrong "just" stands out to him in some way. He doesn't know exactly how he does it. He isn't autistic and has an IQ of 140 something. He uses it in his job and now employs a lot of people and is doing really well.

He couldn't tell time on a clock though.

@Haworthia, I know how stressful it can be to think of them on their own at school and there were a few problems at first (DS would just stand under a tree and sing to himself at playtimes and lunchtimes and they tried to move him up to year 2 for some lessons but it meant he was missing out on being with his classmates which was far more important for him in order for him to build his social skills).
Just make sure you keep talking to the school and work together to find things that work for you son.

@BahMooQuack, the tics can be more disturbing for adults to witness than for young children, I think. DS has physical and verbal tics but his classmates are great and he doesn't get bullied about them but the adults around him find them concerning. I've read that a lot of children grow out of them too so I have my fingers crossed!

He memoised all my credit card numbers

And there was me being impressed DS1 memorised the ipad pin and his library card pin...I had better not let him see me put in my debit card pin

My did struggled early on with timestables as she thought they were just a rhyme. Turned out she could do 3 figure multiples in her head without knowing how. She went on to do physics but is very quirky and has anxiety with tics. She used to build elaborate cities with wooden blocks very early and do very big jigsaws age 2-3.
I was hyperlexic reading very early and fast, I remember at school thinking the other kids were pretending they couldn't readand talked in sentences very early. I'm quirky and geeky.

I suppose what I'm saying about diagnosis is that, making massive assumptions about your son which might bear no resemblance to reality, that intelligent autistic people are incredibly good at learning and adapting to society's expectations. Until we can't do it anymore.

And it's how you handle things if and when you get to breaking point that can affect the trajectory of your life.

Don't get me wrong, I had some difficult periods in my life but still have two degrees and a diploma, work in a senior a management role and am doing well. But to have known that my struggles were due to autism and not me being weird/ wrong/ useless would have helped.

@BahMooQuack so did my son,I never got a refund cos they didn't belueve me when i said it was my 5 year old.. 280 euros

OMG TooGood!!!

I hear your pain.

Thankfully ours was not as bad as that... a number of very small amounts . It took me a bit before I realised!! (Although I could not understand who was sending him things in the mail).

Is anybody that posted on this thread still active and care to chat?

I've not read the whole thread but my asd child's math skill are extremely advanced

Snap on all accounts.

He can occupy himself making up numbers as stats for various imaginary things: prices of cars, populations of countries, likes facts. Pretty good verbally - early reading, good at scrabble - beating me age 6 (he knows a lot of the 2 letter words and goes for combos with good placememt). But v literal (though he understands metaphor) and struggles with overall comprehension of a passage. Anxious, doesn’t sleep that much. good at maths.

does Being an actuary give a good work life balance? As he likes numbers and likes the sound of accountancy, I wonder whether actuarial science is something he should consider on his radar as he grows up. He wants a job where you don’t have to work lots of extra hours.

It depends on the company, some are great and offer flexibility and part time work, me and my husband are both actuaries, we both work part time and flextime. Others are still expecting 12 hour days. While you’re still sitting exams 12 hours is standard just to get your study in.

Thanks @Simonjt ! It’s helpful to be able to give him info so he can make informed decisions - I hadn’t heard of an actuary until I was an adult I think!