GP Appointment for 17yo Without Patents?

[BrokenMumTeenDD]

Hoping someone can answer before I have to ring the practice manager back.

We are trying to get an appointment with our GP to discuss DDs escalating MH problems that are looking very much like PMDD alongside HFA. We can't go with her as she will see us as ganging up on her & things are already bad enough with her targeting me.

So far I've been told we can't do this & she'll have to be with us at the appointment. This won't really help & will make things worse as she gets defensive & denies. We are seeing this personality swap fits neatly around her periods for example, yet DH mentioning something last night had her deny she'd had her period at all. Mind you she denied taking toast out of the toaster. To put her crumpets in, when I stood & watched her do it, but she was so adamant that she didn't, I just don't know what to think anymore.

She is 17, surely we can still do this at this age as we are still her legal guardians - or is that correct & if so how can we get around this please as we need to be able to speak openly without upsetting DD who currently genuinely seems to believe that I am abusive, so she will see this as ganging up & she's still so far okay with her DF & we don't want to rock that (I'm really not, but this has shook me to my core & is affecting my health badly too)

? TIA

Our GP wouldn't allow this, they won't discuss any patient matters without the patients consent and wouldn't enter any information on patient record either, so I can't see it being much use really. Your daughter may see another GP in which case no one would know anyway. It sounds really difficult.

A doctor won't discuss your DD in her absence, but it would be perfectly fine and in fact a good idea to make an appointment to discuss how it is affecting your mental health.

In any case, at 17 she will need to consent to any healthcare she receives (unless she is sectioned).

We've had this before at work and the gp has allowed it. It is a tricky subject though.

Although they have been elderly patients.

Thanks everyone

Devon, thank you. That makes perfect sense & the last thing we want to do is undermine DDs good relationship with our GP. But we are I an awful situation & it's important her GP knows what is really going on with her as we are deeply concerned about her. Way more than normal teen angst & it is scary.

Partly need to discuss HFA & current manifestations of that, which GP already recognised in DD, but we've been let down with referrals for assessment, so no diagnosis which we now realise is urgent. DD agrees with this & also thinks she has HFA/Aspergers but has swung between wanting diagnosis & changing her mind, which she now says is because she didn't want me to have the stress of yet another fight with the NHS. We've unfortunately had a few. Though our GP has always been great & had our backs & what we fought for has been down to knowing family genetics & has always been the right thing in the end & securing the right treatment has made a huge difference to DDs life. Dr Google might not be great, but there's a lot of useful medical articles & knowledgable people within google who sometimes have better understanding of rarer diagnosis than doctors do.

The PMDD we suspect was suggested several times on a medical forum when asking a completely different question on her behalf. Looking it up, it fits like a tee & is linked to her diagnosed conditions.

GP surgery did ring back instead of waiting for my call. Thankfully they were great & GP has agreed to see me & DH alone, reiterating that we already know that they can't discuss anything with us, but can listen in the hope of getting a better understanding of what's going on. A few weeks away though, but at least some light at the end of the tunnel & DD has come back down to earth & is now just a normal stroppy assed teen, as opposed to the snarling abusive Demon I've had to deal for the last 2 or so weeks

Thanks again everyone

"Snarling abusive Demon"

I'm sure you're under a lot of stress op but the wya you describe her isn't entirely fair if she is as unwell as you say. She's not evil. Just unwell and a teenager (teenagers are intense without mh issues). Be mindful of that

Egghead please don't waste your time commenting when you have clearly never dealt with it. If you had, you would know that is the best way to describe the extreme & targeted personality change. I would also never say that out loud

I hope you do get your foot in the mh services if that's what DD wants and that things get easier for her and your family

Lhia I am VERY VERY mindful of that, that's why we are trying to get her help & support as she is obviously unwell. DD is an amazing young woman & this is not who she is

It's a descriptive term to explain the extreme personality change, that's all

Fair enough. It sounds so stressful for you all. Good luck.

I hope you do get your foot in the mh services if that's what DD wants and that things get easier for her and your family

Thank you. So do we, it's a nightmare lately & apart from hormones, the worst of seems to stem from College counselling which turns out isn't taking her probable HFA into consideration & according to NAS can trigger stuff like we are dealing with.

Good to know you've got somewhere for now. In the future, if the GP is supportive but receptionist is not, I would just bypass the receptionist: book an appointment for you/DH and when you're there, discuss DD instead.

I appreciate that it's an intensely stressful and difficult situation for all of you but thinking about your daughter in those terms is not helpful or kind imo and may be exacerbating the situation - she is a struggling teen not a demon.

I am glad that the GP has agreed to meet you and I hope you all get appropriate help soon.

Hi there,

I work in mental health and we get a lot of similar situations with parents/family wanting to be involved in care but we can't share information without consent. My best advice would be to arrange a consultation with the GP to tell them your observations and concerns and push for a CAMHS referral (child and adolescent mental health services). Your GP absolutely can't share information without consent but they can listen to your concerns and questions without breaking confidentiality, just don't expect any information in return. I know it's frustrating as you just want the best for your DD but giving your insight is really helpful and can aid the process of making a referral to mental health services, you just need to trust the GP to do the best for your DD.

Also, seeing as you've been having trouble getting a referral, I would suggest looking up your local CAMHS unit and giving them a call. They will probably have a community team who may agree to come and meet with your DD for an assessment and it's often quicker to contact them directly with your concerns rather than going through the GP - we often get patients admitted for assessment after family or friends have raised concerns about their mental health, whereas if the referral is via a GP who can prescribe medication it can take a little longer.

It might also be worth looking up a local 'Place of Safety' (S136 ward). These are where new patients having a crisis can come for an assessment and treatment. We often get patients brought there by police or occasionally by family if they are new to services. In essence, patients are held under a section 136 which means they will get a mental health assessment by a doctor within 72 hours, after which they will be discharged and/or referred for treatment. I'd only recommend it if your DD is in a crisis and needs urgent treatment, and even so I'd call them first.

It sounds like you've been struggling with this for a while so I hope you can get her some help soon. I think I saw you live in Devon - this is the CAMHS site for that area; childrenandfamilyhealthdevon.nhs.uk/camhs/
I've also (hopefully) added a screenshot of the local crisis team info.

Best of luck to you all, I really hope you get her the help she needs x

Apologies for not having read the whole thread.

Collateral history is a very important part of a psychiatric history so the GP won't mind hearing. Probably not worth an appointment as such though. Do your surgery do call backs?

I hope you do get your foot in the mh services if that's what DD wants and that things get easier for her and your family

Egghead did you actually read my last replies on this point?

I repeat. It is a descriptive term to explain the extreme personality changes that we are dealing with. That's all, you are taking it way too literally & it is not something we would ever say to DD or think about DD as it is far from who she really is. The whole point of this post is because we recognise that she is massively struggling & screaming out for help & we are trying to get the help she needs

Also, don't forget that as your DDs carers you can get support too. I can imagine this is quite a stressful situation for you so it could be worth talking to your GP about carer support, including any support groups etc you could go to if that's something you'd be interested in. If not, you can always take a look at mind.org as they are really great for help and advice and will understand the situation you're in; www.mind.org.uk/information-support/helping-someone-else/carers-friends-family-coping-support/support-for-you/

Buddy thank you so much, that is really helpful.

We know GP can't give us much in return bar listening, but we need her to know more about what's going on. DD has scarily warped memories of some things that have happened & since counsellor at college is accusing me of abuse & really seems to believe her version of events. DH thankfully was witness to much of it & knows the truth, but we are both floundering in how to deal with it.

I've had what I now know fits with "targeted challenging behaviour" since she was small, most of it I've enjoyed dealing with as it shows her spirited side. With severe anxiety in the mix I'm sure you'll understand it's great to see how strong they are behind their anxiety & it gives hope that they'll learn to cope. This has escalated with her huge mood swings & more recently since she started counselling.

Periods over & she's back to her normal stroppy teen self, though now denying & says she had her period weeks ago, despite DH & I seeing evidence to the contrary as she's messy, especially when more ill as she always is during her period

You're welcome, I really hope your DD can get the help she needs soon. Dont forget about you and your DH either, your DD is important but you both deserve support too when you need it and having a child who is unwell can be really hard on you.

In your situation I'd just call the surgery and ask for a call back from your DDs GP, tell them what you need to over the phone and really press them for a CAMHS referral - your DD may appear back to normal when she isnt having a period but that doesnt mean something isnt going on underneath so it's really important she gets a proper assessment. Also definitely try to contact CAMHS directly as they may be able to see her a bit quicker than through the GP.

Something else you could do in the meantime if you're not already is start to document everything. Get a notebook or diary and write down everything your DD does or says that doesnt seem like her normal self or concerns you as that will really help when you get a referral to services. It would also be good to keep an eye on her sleep and eating habits - good sleep hygiene is hugely important for your mental health and it's amazing how much a couple nights of good sleep can do when you're unwell.

Best of luck to you all

My autistic Ds is slightly younger at 15 but has significant mental health difficulties. I had a phone appointment with the gp back in November to talk through my concerns, she agreed to refer to Camhs. She phoned a week later to say that Camhs would not even look at his referral until she had seen him in person. Ds built up the courage to go with Dh in December and the referral was done. Camhs rejected his referral in early January and I had another appointment alone with the gp to discuss this a couple of weeks later. She has been understanding but completely unable to offer any help at all. She actually apologised on behalf of the NHS at the last appointment and said she is so sorry that she can't do more. I've yet to tell Ds that camhs won't see him, he thinks that we are still waiting for an appointment. His eating is very poor the moment, it's difficult to know where to go for help.

I hope you can get a referral for your Dd Broken. The whole ASD thing combined with mental health difficulties is so very hard to live with. Teenagers can be challenging at the best of times but when they have additional needs life can be very stressful.

I hope you get help. My experience of having two children with conditions similar to HFA is that medical/ psychiatric/ psychological staff aren’t interested in the parents point of view, and treat you as the enemy. Rather than the one trying their best to support the young adult - and the one that bears the brunt of their distress.

And I have two snarling demons at times too. It’s very, very hard to live with and support them and not end up with depression yourself.

I think you are really lucky the GP is listening - make sure you don’t say anything negative about your daughter and present it all as the suffering that she herself is going through because of her Mental Health problems.

A relative booked an appointment with a GP to discuss his neighbour (who didn’t have relatives and whose dementia had rapidly gone downhill). He said to them he knew they can’t say anything but he wanted an appointment to give information. It might be worth saying something along the lines of even if they can’t discuss your DD without her being there but you want to talk about your concerns