Please can someone clarify something re Weinstein?

[EachandEveryone]

Im pleased with the verdict. Nasty git. I just need someone to explain to this to me.

"Ms. Mann and Ms. Haley both acknowledged that they continued to see Mr. Weinstein after the alleged assaults and later had 'consensual' sex with him"

Why? Sometimes it was years later, why go back there?

I dont want no trouble I just want someone to explain to me what was going on that they would go back for more despite all the rumours that by now was an open secret in their circles?

Thanks

It's one of those situations that if you've never been there, you'll never understand it

Because they were groomed into believing that it was necessary to be able to be accepted and succesful in their industry? Because he had so much power and influence that if they didn't play the game they were ruined.

It's abuse of power and influence.
Give someone enough power and influence and make them untouchable and nobody would ask questions, or people would have suspicions and turn a blind eye.

Someone in the feminist board put it better than me:
"How did the scandal of TV entertainers grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?*

How did the scandal of Catholic priests grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

How did the scandal of on-street gangs grooming and exploiting children get so bad before anything was done?

Because if you create a sacred caste of any group and silence anyone asking questions about individuals on behalf of the sacred caste, abusers will see, infiltrate, and groom and exploit children. That''s how.

But swap children for women.

To quote Mann:

After he sexually assulted her:
Mann said she then started having a twisted relationship with the mogul in which they had multiple consensual sexual encounters, including a failed threesome.

'I was confused after what happened and I made a decision to be in a relationship with him,' she said. Mann said that while she wasn't sexually attracted to Weinstein, she felt compassion for him and wanted his approval.

He then went on to rape her.

Because he was a hugely influential and powerful man. And he’d groomed these women into believing that going against him (ie saying no to him) would ruin their careers and lives.

You cannot judge these women for the decisions they made. You can judge the sick convicted rapist for the horror he caused them and countless more.

I hope they throw away the key. Hopefully he wont have any influence over that.

I think it's due to the absolute brutality of the industry. This is an industry where women will eat tissue paper soaked in orange juice prior to a big PR event, accept eating disorders and misogyny as "part of the game".... all to get ahead and maintain the status/glory once they get a taste of it.

Weinstein was a powerful figure who appeared able to navigate this for his own sick gain for decades unchallenged. Interesting to see his little outburst at being sent to jail instead of being allowed a tag that he's reportedly removed whilst being on bail previously ...

I think it’s about trying to change the narrative of what has passed so that you feel you have some control over it.

Some people do this because they can't bear the pain of knowing they have been raped and feel that if they have sex with their attacker 'willingly' (for want of a better word, it's such a complicated thing) then they can try to think that maybe the first time wasn't rape after all because they've consented the next time.

It's not as unusual as you might think if you haven't suffered rape yourself and when you think about it, it's a natural response to a total loss of power and one of the most traumatic things you could ever go through. Trying to reclaim control over a horrific dynamic.

Those poor women, it's heartbreaking. They are so, so brave.

I also suspect this is due to his power in the industry,

The description of his genitalia, which was a very small Penis that looked like it had been sewn on, no testicles, and what looked like a vagina, which he laughingly confirmed in court was an accurate description make me wonder if he was mentally damaged by whatever he had going on there, and that coupled with the sheer amount of power he had, turned him into a nasty raping abusing bully.

The whole thing is really quite hard to fathom.

I'm glad he's been found guilty it's shocking what those women went through and what sadly thousands more men and women are going through in Hollywood even children

He's not even the tip of the ice burg of the Evil that goes on in Hollywood or any music , Tv industry I suspect there will be more and more icons not calling him an icon but I wouldn't be surprised if in years to come favourite actors actresses end up in the news for disgusting things they've done

Has anyone watched 'The Morning Show' - I think it does an amazing job of explaining a) how one can find oneself in that kind of situation, b) how perpetrators can easily not realise that they've done anything wrong, or justify what they've done, to themselves or to other people, c) how a culture of silencing and cover-ups develops.
I experienced it on the other end of the scale - back in the 80s, my dad was an advertising photographer so we lived in the West End. After my mum left, he struggled to find people to take care of me after school, so I often ended up at friends' houses. One school associate who'd agreed to have me after school, had older brothers and sisters. They came from an Asian country. They used me for a child porn video and pictures. It happens in all areas of the industry, so while I'm glad the top of the pyramid's fallen off, we have an incredibly lonng way to go on this one.

And She'sCurly is right - my ex also raped me on a few occasions, with me waking up to him going at it, pressing me into it when I'd said no, but I still stayed with him. I was utterly delusional. (Thankfully happily married to a lovely man who would never do anything like that at all, ever!)

@DanglySpider I'm so sorry that's heartbreaking

Thanks @ShesCurly - it was all a long time ago now, and I think I've turned out relatively ok!

Dangly just sickening.

What about the Alisters Those at the very top who, up until qute recently, were thanking him in their Oscar speeches? How did that pass Meryl Streep by? And the Obamas would they not have heard those rumpurs? Although they arent in the film industry I suppose.

I think other people's relationships are often hard to comprehend. Why do women stay with men who beat them, or men stay with women who beat them for that matter. All sorts of things come into it.

I worked for someone who was a real bully, he nearly gave me a nervous breakdown and I look back and think why on earth didn't I walk out as soon as I realised, sticking around for 2 years was madness.

He sounds a nasty piece of work but the thing I don't understand, and perhaps no one does who wasn't on the jury, is how did they prove it? I mean it is too long ago for there to be forensic evidence, the contact they had afterwards obviously muddies the water. Is it just that so many people said it that it must be true? I think that is dangerous, I knew a girl back in the late 60s, we were still at school. Girl from working class family in year 11 going out with boy in 6th form from a local public school. She got pregnant, parents made her go to court to get maintenance for the baby. Back then there was no DNA testing and he got a load of his mates, nicely spoken well dressed posh boys, to testify in court that she had slept with all of them and many more and anyone could be the father. It wasn't true but the judge believed them, I assume so many going into court and saying that sounded convincing so I feel uncomfortable with that. Of course in her case it could have been that he thought the posh boys were more reliable than a working class girl.

It is very difficult.

As an aside I was trying to think who the Alisters were and then the penny dropped!

Is it just that so many people said it that it must be true? I think that is dangerous

You know what's more dangerous? A serial rapist that a jury with access to days and days of evidence found guilty of a number of the heinous charges. After it was agreed there was ample evidence to pursue a prosecution.

@EachandEveryone
I give Michelle Obama a pass because like you said she’s not in the film industry and I don’t think even Harvey Weinstein was powerful or stupid enough to act sleazy to the FLOTUS.

You know what's more dangerous? A serial rapist that a jury with access to days and days of evidence found guilty of a number of the heinous charges. After it was agreed there was ample evidence to pursue a prosecution. Well that was what I was asking, sorry it wasn't clear. I assume there must be more evidence because obviously it is more dangerous to have a serial rapist on the loose but if I get a gang of 20 friends to say you attacked me 10 years ago and there is no forensic evidence would it be OK to lock you up? I just wondered what the other evidence was.

I used to love Meryl Streep but totally changed my opinion of her after hearing her gush about him and Roman Polanski. There's no way she hadn't heard the stories about Weinstein.

Her and quite afew others I imagine.