Why do we have such a low standard of living compared with Australia or New Zealand?

[Iggypoppie]

Disclaimer - never actually been but have watched a lot of Wanted Down Under

Just watched an episode of Wanted Down Under where the woman was told she could earn up to £40k pa working in a bridal dress shop. (£s not $s). And even after higher costs would be loads better off than in the UK.

This has been the case for most who are on the programme - including health and education workers.

So if the UK is a wealth country, why do we have such a low standard of living compared with these countries? (Assuming that the programme is accurate).

Am I missing something?

“And he may break his leg but no one will say that was neglect!!“

😂

My husbands colleague (primary teacher) is Irish and just got back from school camp (NZ). He was saying how most of the activities the kids did would not be allowed back home on a school trip or would be so wrapped up in red tape they wouldn’t bother. Caving, abseiling, canyoning, leaping off cliffs into the river etc.

When we first moved here I was astonished at how people would get to a park or wild place and just leave the kids to it. The attitudes to children’s independence and freedom here are so different. Obviously that has its drawbacks but on balance I think the benefits outweigh the risks.

Can I ask those in the know? With all the outdoors life, physical activities etc what is it like in Oz/NZ in old age?

In what way Daveos?

NZ has sensible liability laws - basically if you do something knowingly risky and get hurt, tough. No-one can be sued for personal liability and there's also an accident compensation scheme.

so that allows much less red tape (or is it risk assessment?) for activities. As well as letting kids do stuff, it means they can have bungee jumping, jetboating and tours to active volcanoes. What could possibly go wrong?

Firstly, you have to be in top health to immigrate. Nothing that would put any strains on the NZ health system. Not sure under which visa you could immigrate there. It’s lovely in old age but you have to drive everywhere and the house prices are insane. We are just looking for a townhouse for my parents in law in a retirement village... $1m... granted that’s in Auckland. But even Hamilton etc is expensive. But it’s beautiful x

alwayscrashing (great name, I know Low well!), I mean if you are less able to partake in long days out to the beach or water sports or hiking etc because of age and physical limitations, are there other typically Antipodean activities? Presumably if you've got to that stage in life, you would have lived in Oz/NZ for some years and have a network etc but I don't mean what's it like socially or medically as you get older but the rest of it.

I think NZ has a fair bit of poverty actually.

There is quite a bit of poverty, particularly child poverty, and we have similar problems with a lack of housing, especially in Auckland and Queenstown.

NZ has 500,000 children living in poverty.

So if you are on a middle income you grumble about housing and groceries. If you’re beneath that, it can be desperate.

Selection bias will very much be in effect here. Brits who move to Australia will only do so because they have good employment prospects in Aus. If your employment prospects there aren't good you won't move there, and indeed Australia won't allow you to.

I’ve got dual NZ and British citizenships and have lived in both places. My daughter was born in the UK and is being educated in NZ.

It’s true we do have poverty, racism, and some of our housing stock is not up to the standard it should be. But every country has issues with these. Perhaps it is more visible here or do people come to NZ with this idea that it is a paradise?

We have earthquakes and volcanoes. Not a lot we will ever be able to do about them.

We are a long way from anywhere, which is a downside definitely, but I’m not sure why you’d be disappointed at that unless you’d never studied New Zealand’s geographic location on a map. A lot of younger people travel to the UK so they can travel, it’s a fact of life.

Yes, we don’t have a Oxford or Cambridge here. But I didn’t find my tertiary education lacking in the UK when I was working alongside counterparts with education from these institutions. In fact, I sometimes found I’d had a much broader education and was given more responsibility early in my career than in the UK. There are some advantages to a small population.

I live in Wellington, which offers me a great quality of life. I own a small house, a block and a half from the beach. It’s a 40 minute commute into the CBD.

School wise, there isn’t the stress of your “summer born son” starting school at just 4. Children start at 5, but don’t have to be enrolled until 6.

There is no SAT pressure at primary school.

There is no pressure around school applications and no 4+, 7+, 11+ or 13+.

No stressful University clearing process.

She is part of her school’s Kapahaka performance group and her Te Reo is way better than mine. Their current inquiry (social study and science) unit at school is “Who I am”. Family, culture, religion is all wrapped up in this, but it is also important because in Te Ao Māori knowing your whakapapa is really important.

This weekend if it’s sunny we will wander down to the beach, she will play with the local kids (who ever is around) and jump off the wharf into the sea. We will probably cycle together to a local café (an independently owned) for a coffee at some point. We may have amazing fish and chips for dinner.

I think that some people are more adaptable than others when it comes to moving countries and experiencing different things. There were a lot of things in the UK that I found confusing, time consuming and overly complicated. Like getting an NI number for example.

Gah - long post sorry!!

Bloody awesome post Fantail - ka nui te pai!

I'm an Australian lives in the UK and has done for the last 12 years. My personal observations are:

• job wise, you're better off in Australia for trade or low skilled work, better off in UK for white collar work

• outdoor lifestyles are to personal preferences. I like a ramble through a muddy field and a pub lunch, other people would prefer a beach on a 35 degree day

• food is so expensive in Australia, especially eating out. You can get very high quality fine dining in the UK for good value compared to Oz, but the lower end of eating is much much better quality in Oz

• there's a lot more space to move around. My childhood had masses of freedom that kids in the UK don't seem to have, but....

• despite what is shown on TV, most people in Australia live in the vast soulless swathes of the suburbs of the cities. Not a beach lifestyle. Huge areas of Western Sydney (where I'm from) have had most trees knocked down when they opened the areas for development, so you get houses where people sit inside with their air con on because it's unpleasant to go out in the treeless unrelenting sun and humidity

• pubs in Australia are generally shit. There are some gems but it's not like the UK

• Australia had an amazing amount of scenery and wonderful outdoors. But fly from Sydney to Perth and people sound the same and generally are the same. I can get a train from central London and be in France or Belgium for lunch, such different cultures on your doorstep in the UK

And that's my 2c/2p!

Davros, I guess old people here are the same as everywhere. If they are outdoorsy types they will continue be so. Blokes where I live seem to gravitate to boating and fishing (or drinking beer on a boat anyway), but I live by the beach in a very boaty place. We have all the normal indoor pursuits too, so I imagine life for older people is much the same as the UK. One thing I see here which is quite nice, we live near a beach that has a little green beside it with free barbeques and shade. Every weekend when the weather is nice huge families gather with chairs and rugs and picnics and set up camp for the day, and the oldies sit and chat and look after the food while the little kids play cricket and swim, its just lovely to see!

Interesting, thanks for the reply. The lifestyle sounds potentially good for the young and middle aged so I wondered what it offers to older people. As pointed out Upthread by others, I suppose no one would emigrate there over a certain age

Davros, you'd be surprised! A lot of older people follow their families to Oz, if they can afford it! Aged relative visas can be very expensive, but they are in huge demand.

Can I ask those in the know? With all the outdoors life, physical activities etc what is it like in Oz/NZ in old age?

The care given to my elderly father was second to none, far better than he would have got in the UK.

tours to active volcanoes. What could possibly go wrong?

Whakaari is what could go wrong.

Yeah when i retire I'm doing it in Australia, i do think the care and lifestyle on offer is better than the UK, which seems to be about struggling on in your home until you drop dead or spending every single penny you have to go to a dreary nursing home

I'm a Brit, now living in Western Australia, and our lifestyle has improved hugely from moving out here, but definitely would not have been the case for us if we'd move to the East coast with the cost of housing there.

My commute is less than 30 mins, on a clean train that comes on time and every 5 mins in the mornings. Our house is 2 mins to the beach, 5 mins to shops / cinemas, 5 mins the other way to some amazing bush trails that I run my dog on and won't see another sole from 1 day to the next. We see kangaroos most mornings, and the trees / plants are beautiful, and the views out to the ocean are spectacular. We've had thunder / lightning the last few days and it's been pretty cool to watch.

We've so far avoided the bushfires, and I think Perth seems to have milder weather than I'd expected. Winters are cold and wet but brief, and I find summers to be about as close to perfect weather as you can get, warm and dry, and a very few days that are vvv hot, but once the wind comes in the afternoons even those high 30 / 40's aren't so bad at beach. I love to be outside and I don't think you can beat Perth for the outdoors. For me, you also can't beat Margaret River region, it's stunning all year round, food is fab, beaches are beautiful and empty and great wine.

Work wise, I've gone from 35k GBP, to over $200k a year for an equivalent role, so we're so much better off, even taking into account the higher cost of living.

It's $3.50 for a loaf of bread in some cases and $3.70 for a croissant

How far would £40k go if you had to pay £3.50 for a loaf of bread here?

The food prices are high,

$3.50 for a loaf of bread isnt much though when minimum wage is $19.66 per hour if you are over 21. Or $23.59 an hour if you work casually.

Supermarket brand bread is around $1.30.

Having lived in both places I don't think Australia offers a better standard of living necessarily. It all depends where you live in both places. Sydney is a very expensive city, even with higher wages. Eating out and travel is so expensive whereas in the UK you can do loads of international travel and eat out for reasonable amounts, even in London. As for lifestyle it really depends what you like weather-wise. Work-life balance isn't great in Sydney and public transport is pretty terrible compared to London. In Australia you have to fly between cities and there is a definite lack of career opportunities in certain fields. I've found professional opportunities in the UK to be far better and although my salary is lower my money seems to go a lot further.