What to say to potentially CF neighbours

[NCParanoia]

NCd for this one cos I'm paranoid they will find me!

We live in a house in a big city which has been turned in to flats. We are all joint freeholders and therefore manage the building and lease etc together and all decisions have to be joint so there isn't a landlord as we are all the landlord. Hopefully this makes sense.

The neighbours who own the basement flat want to change the deeds to say that the small patio area outside of their French doors belongs solely to their flat. The garden as a whole is communal and we wouldn't have to cross this patio area to access the rest of the garden.

Obviously we wouldn't really use this area because it's so close to their flat so it would feel a bit awkward and as far as I know (we've not lived there long) no one else in the other two flats really uses it. They have put some pots out there and a table and chairs. They said they would pay to change the deeds but didn't mention buying the land off of the rest of us.

The person in flat 3 is selling so he doesn't care. The person in flat 4 got 'given' the loft in a similar situation before everyone else (incld basement flat people) moved in so imo he feels like he can't say no but that's just my opinion.

We want to say no as 1. I don't think this should be agreed whilst someone is purchasing flat 3 as they should have a say. 2. They could do as they wish with the land afterwards eg building an extension on it, fencing it off, it could become a mess etc and we wouldn't be able to do anything about it. 3. No one uses it anyway so it's pretty much theirs so it doesn't need to become 'legally' theirs. The status quo should remain. 4. We bought the flat with the whole communal garden and, rightly or wrongly, I feel like they shouldn't get it for nothing. Though I know this might be unreasonable thinking.

I want to explain this to them in a fair way and people on MN are always at suggesting ways to spell out things. I have a problem with being succinct as you may be able to tell. Can anyone give any suggestions of what to say please?

Thanks in advance and apologies if I am slow at responding, I'm about to take my toddler out to playgroup!

Couldn’t you have it written into the deeds that they can’t alter it so can’t extend etc? And is the land even worth much? Personally I’d say let’s wait until the new person has moved in and then discuss it again. I can’t see any real reason for saying no though if your never going to use that area anyway, if your protected with regards to them not being able to extend then it doesn’t really make any difference to you but it obviously matters to them so why not help our neighbour relations when the time is appropriate?

I would say no because of point 2. I wouldn't explain any more than you have done here.

I wouldn't mention any of the other points.

I'd say no as per point 2. And if they argue they would do that say there is no guarantee the next owner wouldn't

They may also fence it off which would make your communal garden feel more enclosed

Another one saying that point 2 leaps out as being a huge risk. I can't think of any reason for them wanting it on the deeds, other than they want to build or extend onto it. They have full use of it as it is, so there had to be some underlying reason why they suddenly want to own it.

I also think you'd sound entirely reasonably in making that your reason for saying no. They should be able to understand the practicalities of that.

I would say no on the grounds that it creates a precedence.

I'd agree on the conditions that the new owner of flat 3 also agreed to it and the patio CF's pay for a solicitor to draw something up legally agreeing that the patio will remain a patio and not be built on and not be enclosed.

I'd say no, because why now? No one else uses it, they've made it their own, no one has objected to their sole use. Why do they feel the need to rock the boat? I'd therefore be suspicious that they're planning on fencing it or extending, as others have said.

In Scottish law if you maintain and look after an area for a certain number of years you can apply for ownership. Not sure if something similar in English law. Speak with a lawyer?

I'd say no for the reasons already stated and also because the marriage value of this piece of land being part of their flat title will increase their flat's value and potentially decrease the values of the other flats which will now have a smaller shared garden.

Do you have a mortgage? Because giving up your rights to this part of the communal area means you’ll have to change your lease as well and your mortgage company isn’t likely to be that happy. You can always say that you’ve spoken to them and sorry computer says no even if you haven’t. I’ve found people are much more likely to accept no if you make it sound as if the decision was out of your control.

I suspect the reason they want the patio part is to fence it off. I wouldn't personally have an issue with that as long as the remaining outdoor space is suitable for what l use it for.

Also, how much space will be left for the rest of the flat's? Is it big enough that you could all have your own private area?

Could they be given in in exchange for not using the rest of the garden?

I would have no problem saying no!

Sorry for going AWOL.
We did think about adding clauses to the deed change but tbh we would never have the money (or energy or time) to contest it if they (or whoever buys their flat if they move) go against the clauses.

The garden is large so it would really impede of space we can use.

Glad that everyone seems to think that I'm not being a dick in saying no so thank you for that!
Not sure how to word it and/or whether to copy in the rest of the freeholders so they are aware of our decision?

Dear neighbour

Since your request to change the deeds to state that you own the patio area we have been giving it some thought as well as seeking out professional advice.

We have come to the decision that we wish the lease to remain as is, and that the garden including the patio should remain communal as per the lease when we purchased our flat.

We don't feel it's fair for this decision to go ahead whilst flat 3 is being sold and therefore the new owners being left out of the decision making process and also we want to protect ourselves against the land being built on or fenced in, amongst other things, as this may reduce the value of our property.

Since the space is used mostly by yourselves anyway we hope you are happy to keep the status quo.

Ta muchly you CFs

I've heard of that too @TARSCOUT not sure on the legalities here. I think they'd struggle to prove only they use it as it is an open space if you see what I mean.

@NCParanoia I personally wouldn’t mention the new owners as this gives the opportunity to open up the dialogue again once the new owners move in.

I wouldn't mention the new owners, as if they did ask them, they are most likely to say yes, to keep the peace with their new neighbours. I wouldn't put too much in writing, other than you want to keep things as they are. I also wouldn't put in writing that you acknowledge they have the most use out of the patio either. There's really no need. Just a straightforward no is fine.

Oh, and yes, copy in the others, so they are brave enough to say no too.

Thanks everyone. I'll draft up something else and hopefully it will sound better.
I'll cut out about flat 3 and keep it succinct