Tipping 10% of the bill seems a lot to me

[ElderAve]

I'm prepared to be flamed but let me explain my logic.

Now DC are grown up, when we go out to dinner we are usually 4 adults. We don't do it very often but like somewhere "nice" so when we do, two courses plus drinks probably cost £150-£200. We'll be in the restaurant say 2 hours and the waiter will typically have 5/6 other tables (?).

That's an awfully good hourly rate if everyone leaves 10%.

Would you leave £20 on a £200 bill for 4 people? If not what is a fair/reasonable amount to leave?

I paid £60 tip at the weekend as 10% of the bill. But we were a large party and I checked that it went to everyone so actually per person not that much for their efforts. But I did wince a little inside

In the US, I believe waiting staff are taxed automatically on an amount deemed to be tips. I can't remember the numbers, but I think it's deemed they have earned an extra % of income in tips (let's say it's 15%), and they are taxed on that, regardless of whether they actually received more or less.

In the UK, I wonder if by adding the tips to bills, it makes it easier to show on employees' wage slips their tip amounts (as this will also need to be declared for income tax).?

I hate being expected to tip - but then I would feel awful leaving nothing. Generally 10% of the bill but depends who I'm with. Some friends/family are beyond tight. My DS added a 23p tip to her share of a meal the other day (it was £44.77 so she just rounded up, I left extra as was so embarrassed for her)

In the US, I believe waiting staff are taxed automatically on an amount deemed to be tips. I can't remember the numbers, but I think it's deemed they have earned an extra % of income in tips (let's say it's 15%), and they are taxed on that, regardless of whether they actually received more or less.

The figure is 8% of the restaurant's monthly sales. It happens very rarely, and when it does happen they claim the money back in their tax return.

I'm currently on holiday in America and the automatically added tip for everything - meals, drinks, Lyft, etc - is 18%. With an option to add more.

They're automatically adding the tip onto your bill?

I live in the US and have only experienced this when I'm in a large group.

Generally a check has the total including taxes, then a space to add the tip.

However, further to my incorrect surmisings, is it really standard to have to keep paying people to open a door, press a button or to do a 3-second job that you could easily have done for yourself - and one which, if you are disabled and unable to do yourself, I would hope would just be quickly done without fanfare to help you as a simple courtesy?

No it's not.

No it's not.

Thanks for confirming that - glad to hear it. It would seriously impact on my enjoyment of a place if there were people running in front of me and getting in my way and then expecting a gratuity for having done so!

So a waiter would expect/is receiving £60 an hour in tips?

No, many places split all tips between ALL staff. From the kitchen porter, bar staff, chef and all waiting staff so it could be split between a dozen people in reality.

I never tip.

If you can’t afford to leave 10% tip, you can’t afford to dine there is my opinion.
If you think minimum wage, and let’s face it most hospitality staff are not on much more, but if you think minimum wage is enough to deal with walking miles, customers who think its ok to let their kids spill food and smear it all over high chairs, bum slapping, rudeness, disputes over bills, customers running out without paying and all the other crap waiters put up with, then you’re living in cloud cuckoo land.
I think wait staff work bloody hard. Harder than anything I could do or have ever done.

I tip £5 no matter what the bill. The serving staff do no more bringing us three fillet steaks than they do bringing us three burgers.

The only time the tip is more is if we are out with a larger group, then we usually leave £5 per family/couple.

A server’s tip shouldn’t be pot luck depending on what people choose to eat.

If you think minimum wage, and let’s face it most hospitality staff are not on much more

Plenty of staff are on minimum wage and don’t get a tip. Would you tip carers? Housekeeping? Road sweepers? Their jobs are just as demanding.

Bad service I don't tip.
Ok service, I might round it up.
Good service I usually tip £5.
Amazing food and the food fantastic we tip £10. This is a lot of % in the places we eat. If we leave feeling very happy and relaxed (with 2 kids) it's worth it.

It irks me when (maybe once every 2 years) we eat somewhere pricey and the tip is extortionate. As the staff make the same effort as the cheap places.
So in summary, I don't like to tip as a percent.

@MintyMabel well I tip the bin men and the postman at Christmas. £20 for each of the bin lorries (we have 2) and a £10 for the postman. I always tip housekeeping when I’m in a hotel and I tipped the bloody Butler I had on my last holiday.
If I get god service, I tip.
I’ve not seen a road sweeper and I don’t use a carer.
Sorry, was I supposed to run that past you before I tipped?

I always tip 10% in restaurants/ coffee shops. My DS works in hospitality and I know how much they rely on tips. I tip at the hairdressers , the beauty salon and the postie at Christmas.

Slow hand-clap for the posters popping on with that old chestnut... "If you can't afford to tip, you can't afford to eat there...".

What bollocks and how pompous you sound.

Hospitality industry is turning over at a very fast rate, restaurants close all the time. Are you going to bail them out with your 'substantial tips'? Repeat paying customers are what keeps the industry going, not your shrapnel tips. Cloud-cuckoo land for sure, but it's not the other posters living there.

... and to PeterPan, some of us don't allow our children to make a mess or mistreat waiting staff (or anybody else) with anything but respect.

Do you honestly think money would recompense for awful treatment? That is screwed up thinking and immediately credibility is lost because of the many, many professions out there where they have to deal with worse 'customers' than any waiting staff have to face.

I don’t tip and I’m not embarrassed, I have no problem getting a table in popular restaurants and I have worked as a waitress myself.

I’m not really well paid enough to be handing out cash over and above the price of the food and drink I’ve ordered like lady bountiful, and as I’m often in my overdraft it seems mad to tip when that would put me further into my overdraft.

@LyingWitchInTheWardrobe exactly what you said.
Why should someone not be able to use their own money to treat themselves to a meal without worrying that they have to be able to afford an additional £20 for a bog standard service? Those that feel that £20 tip is not unreasonable.., it's only not unreasonable when you can 1. afford it and 2. You feel it was deserved.

Tipping has got out hand to my mind. Most services now expect it for nothing, not to reward a good service. I was getting my nails done at someone's house. Generous tips were expected every time, even if she was rushed and didn't have time to do anything but the bare minimum. Every time I was treated to a long list of examples of clients who had also stopped to bring the nail artist expensive coffees, cakes, food and presents as well. Consequently, when I didn't tip each time it didn't go down to well.

However, I will tip well when I think it is deserved.

Yeah I would too. Unless the service was awful in which case I wouldn't tip anything. Surely if fancy meals out are not a regular occurrence it's no big deal?

walking miles, customers who think its ok to let their kids spill food and smear it all over high chairs, bum slapping, rudeness, disputes over bills, customers running out without paying

Oh boo boo cry me a river. Don't like it go somewhere else.

The wage is clearly discussed before the undertaking of the job. So that's the money. Nothing else should be expected. Do the job you're being paid for or leave.

We always leave at least 10% and usually a good bit more.

I’m not really well paid enough to be handing out cash over and above the price of the food and drink I’ve ordered like lady bountiful, and as I’m often in my overdraft it seems mad to tip when that would put me further into my overdraft.

Exactly. If you stop and think about it for a moment, tipping is a way of showing that the waiting staff are subservient to you, earn a lot less than you and are desperate for/dependent on the hope of your throwing them a few extra crumbs.

That's not a very pleasant scenario for the 21st century, even if all of the above factors are the case - but when they're on minimum wage and you're also on minimum wage, maybe relying on an overdraft, it's ridiculous. If you work in Tesco on NMW and tip the waitress because she supposedly needs it more than you, does she in return tip you when she comes and does her shopping the next day? If not, why not?

If we're all honest, the reason we tip is because society tells us that we should tip. Why else do we only talk about withholding the tip (as though it's assumed) if the service or food are dreadful but not doing so if the experience was only 'OK' i.e. not as good as you'd anticipated?

Even if the food and service were out of this world, why would our instincts be to tip? It's the hospitality industry - that's why it costs a lot more than doing it yourself at home: it's supposed to be special.

If you bought a ticket to see your favourite singer/band and the performance was absolutely outstanding - one of the best in your life - would you expect to leave another 10-20% on the way out as a tip? Yes, the main artist/band probably doesn't need the extra money, but what about the woman who sells the t-shirts, the man selling the programmes, the roadies, the tour bus driver? Not to mention the staff employed by the venue itself. They've worked hard to bring you a fabulous experience and they're probably not earning a lot of money for all their efforts.

Even those who tip everybody, it's not something that they've come up with off the top of their own heads without any societal influence, is it? You tip automatically because you believe you should, rather than spontaneously deciding that somebody specifically deserves an extraordinary reward for something.