8 y/o DS poor behaviour

[TheMostHappy]

I had a phone call this morning from DS school advising me that he has been involved in bullying another child with two Of his friends. I am absolutely disgusted, extremely disappointed but honestly not surprised. His behaviour has deteriorated markedly since the start of year 4 and since he has become friends with quite a disruptive child in his class. He is now rude, argues and answers back, he has no respect for grown ups and to be really honest, I don't know what approach to try with him next. I had a phone call from another parent before Christmas saying that DS and the disruptive "other child" had been mean to her child, and I came down upon ds like a tonne of bricks - iPad confiscated and he was banned from his favourite hobby until he earned it back, loss of privileges etc. I've been rewarding good behaviour and I've reinforced that if there's a problem I need to know about it and hear about it from him, but it largely seems to have been disregarded. Whenever he's in trouble this "other child's" name comes up and I'm sick of it - I'm fully aware that other child is not only to blame and ds is responsible for his own actions, but he's been told before about making sensible friendship choices and again this advice has been disregarded- we don't mix with other child outside of school at all. Any tips for what else I can do to get him through this?

Another very helpful bump. If anyone has been through this before and has any advice, I would really appreciate it, because I'm kind of at the end of my tether to be honest.

*hopeful, not helpful.

I cannot offer any advice because I was essentially coming on to ask exactly the same questions. I've been in tears tonight and am totally at a loss as to what is next. In the spirit of sharing and therefore hopefully at least helping you to feel you are not alone, here's a summary of where we are at (also Y4).

DS has always been a bit tricky behaviour wise, not obviously so and when much younger put down to a wilful personality by school and us, though we always corrected it, pulled him up on unacceptable behaviour etc. He didn't really make friend easily when he joined primary school, though he is outwardly an extrovert and confident. He had one friend who he had been best friends with since he was a baby but he ended up in the other class with a new group of friends that DS was originally involved with, but slowly they all distanced themselves. Lack of effort was commented on from the very beginning and despite lots of support from me at home and older brothers offering to read with him etc (may be more fun etc) it has just continued to go down hill. He has finally now found a few friends but he has expanded his extroverted, care free attitude to this overinflated version of himself so he plays for laughs, is disruptive, refuses to engage in learning at school and at home. He says it is all boring and he doesn't need it anyway. There was a serious bullying incident that it turned out he was involved with but certain things involved were another boy who is a bad influence (but DS has been difficult before this but never any bullying or anything like this). I spoke to the mum and cleared it all up but it was awful. I am routinely pulled into school to speak to the teachers, who are trying their best to come up with ways to help and engage him and we are totally supportive but none of it works. He is currently being monitored and feedback is given to us every day but today at an activity he does the instructor came and told me he didn't think it was worth him continuing as he puts in no effort, shows no interest and won't follow instructions. This is not the first time this has happened. This activity he actively chose to do. Part of trying new activities was to help him make some friends but he is just not engaging with anything. He comes up with convoluted quite elaborate plans to get out of doing things at school. He has refused to put effort into things for so long that now I can see he has no confidence in his ability to, for example, read out loud or answer a timestable question. He cloaks it all in bravado, but won't act or cooperate with any of the help and support he is being given.

Its absolutely heartbreaking and I found myself in tears tonight wishing I had never had him. I love him to bits and I know it is the absolute relentlessness of everyday bringing something new and him not caring, but I am totally out of ways to help him anymore.

OP, I wonder if maybe this maybe could be moved to somewhere with more traffic? AIBU to just give up or similar.

Same here, and I'm so sorry you're going through this too. I'm completely at a loss. I feel like a rubbish parent. My DS is also completely disillusioned with school, he has no interest in anything other than his hobby. This is the first time I've ever been called by school but I suspect, as long as he's hanging around with this other child (and what can I do to stop him at school) this is going to Continue and as they grow older potentially escalate. It's heart breaking, I feel like I don't know him anymore and he's growing in to a not very nice person. I try to guide him in to making better decisions but he seems to forget all the advice and lives in the moment - if at that moment he's being encouraged to behave like a moron, he will do it. He would literally do anything to get a laugh from someone he looks up to. And here we are.

Yes I might see if I can get it moved - thank you.

We're just moving this thread over to chat for the OP.

he's growing into a not very nice person

This in spades. But it is all happening before my very eyes and I just can't seem to stop it. The thing is, I can't see how he will just decide it is no longer worth it and suddenly become engaged because by then he will have alienated so many people and got so far behind that I can only see it making things worse as time goes on.

Have the school been helpful? I have considered moving school just to give him a fresh start perhaps and I am dangerously close to this. The school are really trying though. The only thing he has done is distance himself from the bullying boy, because he essentially had DS lie and threw him under the bus - this was the one occasion when I saw DS genuinely distressed about the situation and the other boy wouldn't even look at him when DS was looking to him for reassurance over the 'story'.

Yes!! I've said to him that it's all very well having one best friend, but in the process you're pissing off nearly the whole rest of your cohort and becoming quite unpopular. The school have today said they will start him on a behaviour chart that will come home (he's basically on report!) and to try and foster more constructive friendships outside of school which I have taken on board. But that's as far as we have got. I think if push comes to shove and he's sat on his own, he will deliver work - but if I know him, (and I think I do) it will literally be the bare minimum he can get away with. He's totally bored by it all. He was vaguely interested in the Tudor topic they did which I was thrilled by and fully embraced that with him by taking a trip to Hampton court and things like that, but that topic came and went and he lost interest. Now he's just drifting I think.

And I've spoken to him this evening about he bullying that has been going on, and I'm so confused as the child involved is someone I know he is very keen on (they were "boyfriend and girlfriend" not long ago). He's blaming it all on the other child but I don't think that's the full story, I'm not willing to discount his responsibility for his part in this.

Thank you @LilyMumsnet

Year four was a hideous year in terms of my ds's behaviour. I actually used to dread picking him up in case the teacher wanted a chat with me! They seem to go from being little children into these preteen nightmares! I have read that boys experience a hormone surge at this age but no idea if that's true or not.

I suggest plenty of sleep and exercise for him and plenty of wine for you!

I vaguely remembe year 4 being a bit difficult with his older brothers but this is a different league. Conversely, his teacher emailed to say that his ‘report’ this week is really good and showing great improvement, so the issue at the activity tonight was just unnecessary.

Sleep is a good call though, he has never been good at sleeping early and really stays up too late due to a combination of wanting the light on, siblings staying up, living in a flat so able to hear us and just thinking he can.

Children who are in year 4 experience huge brain changes. A massive developmental leap occurs at this time. year 4 is a time when friendships issues arise. They are trying to navigate very complex social situations and seeing who can be the social 'too dog/s' so to speak. Doesn't mean these children are horrible. They need support to understand why they're behaving like this and to think about what's going on for them. Most likely insecurity, fear, increase in academic and social expectations (that not all children are able to meet).

What did the school say? Could you ask them to keep an eye on this 'friendship' and maybe to see if they can be kept separate in the classroom? (I don't see how they could stop it at breaks though).

The Class Clown persona can often be adopted by children who can't keep up academically with their peers because of undiagnosed AN.

'Won't follow instructions' is sometimes a case of 'doesn't know how to follow instructions'

Being the Class Clown deflects everyone's attention away from the fact that the child is genuinely struggling.

Why schools can't see this and automatically try and deal with the children as they would with kids who genuinely struggle with instructions I've no idea, but it may be worth your while asking SENCO if he can be observed by an Ed Psych at school to make sure it's 'Won't' instead of 'Can't'.

I’ll definitely raise it. He is definitely struggling, but has never really put in any effort, refused to do reading etc but when he does read he can, not well because he refuses to practice but it’s definitely knocked his confidence and got into a cycle.

I did, in our case, ask whether we should be thinking about any potential diagnoses etc but they seemed to think not, though I will follow up even if just to rule it out.

Schools are often rubbish at seeing a child who genuinely struggles though Mercedes, in schools' view that child is already deliberately naughty because of all the things they've already done. Schools can be the last to actually notice any genuine problems.

See if this list rings any bells, it's about executive function skills which we all need and some of us have more than others.
www.understood.org/en/learning-thinking-differences/child-learning-disabilities/executive-functioning-issues/what-is-executive-function

this one's about slow processing speed, www.understood.org/en/learning-thinking-differences/child-learning-disabilities/information-processing-issues/processing-speed-what-you-need-to-know

Also check out Ross Greene's website for different parenting techniques. www.livesinthebalance.org/