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If the HIghway code is LAW, then why....and if it ISN'T, is that why.....

21 replies

QuiQuaiQuod · 26/01/2020 19:21

Some of the following may not be in the HC by the way...unless it's been updated:

cars breaking speed limits and seemingly getting away with it (we have a 20MPH road and the Lewis Hamiltons that think it's Silverstone are on it all the time and police or Traffic enf won't do anything about it...till someones killed of course)

Cars and cycles running red lights.

Cycles on pavements.

electric scooters on the road.drivers who have had their licences revoked still driving (andI know of some and theystill get away with it)

Drunk and drug driving

People on phones in cars and on cycles.

cyclists not wearing reflective gear/helmets/lights on bikes.

Obstructing dropped kerbs, especially emergency disabled access, parking on yellow lines.

keeping engines running while stopped in same place for a long time.

Tailgating.

non blue badge holders parking in disabled spaces.

people parking in P & C spaces without children in the car

Why, if its law, do so many people abuse it and get away with it?

and why.if it isn't law, do the law abiding bother at all keeping to the rules?

Just wondering.

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Ellmau · 26/01/2020 19:24

Because they think they won't get caught. And they're SuperSpecial so the rules don't apply to them.

Cyclists on pavements clearly believe both.

Esssa · 26/01/2020 19:26

Think there is something in the wording. Whether it says should or must.

QuiQuaiQuod · 26/01/2020 19:30

Many things in the HC say 'DO NOT' in red. Surely that's a law.

And where it has traffic enforcement cameras and speed cameras. Are any of them actually switched on? and CCTV?

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QuiQuaiQuod · 26/01/2020 19:32

Oh, and car seats for babies/toddlers, and children sitting in passenger seats.

and isn't it a law that seatbelts MUST be worn?

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QuitMoaning · 26/01/2020 19:37

But couldn’t you ask the same question of many things. Cannabis is illegal yet so many people use it.

BadEyeBri · 26/01/2020 19:39

Because PEOPLE. People are arseholes and think laws don't apply to them or just don't care.

BadLad · 27/01/2020 10:59

As I understand it, things aren't law automatically by being in the Highway Code. But some things written in it are indeed legal requirements.

If you have a crash, and there's a dispute over whose fault is was which ends up in court, then the Highway Code is likely to be very persuasive in deciding the outcome.

MistyIsland · 27/01/2020 11:03

20 mph limits (generally) are not actual speed limits and unenforceable, however if you get caught it could be classed as dangerous driving 🤷‍♀️

Mainly most of this is because people are arseholes and think the law doesn’t apply to them

AlunWynsKnee · 27/01/2020 11:12

Your list contains things that aren't law or even in the code like P&C parking (that's a courtesy thing offered off the public highway).
The HC is a mix of law and guidance.
There aren't anywhere near enough police to enforce the law for serious crimes let alone selfish parking.
People are selfish, especially in their cars.

megletthesecond · 27/01/2020 11:16

There aren't enough police.
My estimate from walking almost everywhere is that at least 10% of drivers are using their phone. Start giving everyone a lifetime ban and it'll stop.

VeniVidiWeeWee · 27/01/2020 11:19

20 mph limits (generally) are not actual speed limits and unenforceable

@MistyIsland

Please let us know of an unenforceable 20 mph limit, (in the UK).

MistyIsland · 27/01/2020 11:59

You’d need to google individual TRO and look at the responses. When a TRO is applied for the police will respond with their views.

For example one i just googled states the 20 mph speed zone/limit:

If a 20 zone is signed with Diagram 674 at all entrances, and Diagram 675 at all exits, with no point on the road being more than 50 metres from a piece of traffic calming, the 20mph limit is legally enforcable.

However the as most of the signs are incorrectly placed making the 20mph not enforceable.

However, it could be argued that you were driving dangerously.

ComtesseDeSpair · 27/01/2020 13:34

Some aspects of the Highway Code are also the law - things which state you “must” or “must not”, for example. Other things are guidance for safe driving - which means they aren’t criminal offences in their own right, but that if you do not follow them when driving and cause an accident, the accident would be deemed your fault by your insurance and could result in you being prosecuted for dangerous driving if you injured somebody else.

Some people ignore both laws and guidance if they think they can get away with it, that’s not unique to driving.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 27/01/2020 13:57

The bits in the highway code that we law have "MUST" or "MUST NOT". When it says "SHOULD" that is not the law, but if you don't follow it and have an accident say, then it could be taken into account if you were prosecuted for dangerous/careless driving (where the test is "did the standard of driving fall below what would be expected of a competent and careful driver").

As for pavement cycling, yes it is against the law. But when fixed penalty notices were introduced for it the minister said:

"The introduction of the fixed penalty is not aimed at responsible cyclists who sometimes feel obliged to use the pavement out of fear of traffic and who show consideration to other pavement users when doing so. Chief Police Officers who are responsible for enforcement, acknowledge that many cyclists, particularly children and young people, are afraid to cycle on the road, sensitivity and careful use of police discretion is required".

Whether you think that means people who cycle on pavements are SuperSpecial or not, there is clearly room for consideration of how people are cycling on the pavements when it comes to enforcement.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 27/01/2020 13:58

(I'm sure I didn't take that long to write, but cross posted with Comtesse, who said much the same)

PhonicTheHedgehog · 27/01/2020 14:01

Is it against the law to cycle the wrong way down a one way street? Or for a car to reverse the full length of a one way street?

eenymeenyminyme · 27/01/2020 14:21

Since when has being illegal stopped many people doing anything?

It's only a real fear of getting caught which will stop laws being broken.

whatsthecomingoverthehill · 27/01/2020 14:28

Is it against the law to cycle the wrong way down a one way street?

Yes. Someone riding a bicycle is classed as a "vehicle", and in this case the same rules apply. (There are some rules that don't apply to bicycles, e.g. speed limits do not generally apply to pedal bicycles, because the law in that case is for a "motor vehicle".

Or for a car to reverse the full length of a one way street?
106. No person shall drive, or cause or permit to be driven, a motor vehicle backwards on a road further than may be requisite for the safety or reasonable convenience of the occupants of the vehicle or other traffic, unless it is a road roller or is engaged in the construction, maintenance or repair of the road.

So yes, it is illegal to reverse up a one way road, but it depends on the distance traveled. So, reverse parking would be OK, reversing up the whole road to get out again probably isn't. But there is probably a grey area in between these two extremes. It would have to be tested in court to determine exactly what constitutes "reasonable convenience".

PhonicTheHedgehog · 27/01/2020 16:07

Thanks whats.

MotherWol · 27/01/2020 16:56

Is it against the law to cycle the wrong way down a one way street? Or for a car to reverse the full length of a one way street?

Many one-way streets are two-way for cycles - there's often a sign but there may not be any painted markings on the street. That's not to excuse cyclists who are going the wrong way on streets without a contraflow, but it's not always the case that they're breaking the law.

Another complicating factor: here in London, there are roads overseen by TfL (the strategic network), and roads overseen by boroughs (usually local streets and residential streets). Speed limits apply on both, but only the TfL streets have speed cameras, and speeding offences on borough roads are a civil, not criminal matter, so not a case for police enforcement.

Tl;DR: it's complex, road policing is underfunded, and a lot of people don't fully understand the Highway Code but are very quick to start yelling at others about it.

If the HIghway code is LAW, then why....and if it ISN'T, is that why.....
QuiQuaiQuod · 28/01/2020 17:51

That's the thing, isn't it? People get away with being prats because they CAN.

Bet if I did 21 on a 20mph I'd be the one who get stopped though!

I've got a no obstructing emergency disabled access across my dropped kerb driveway and the F"&"!&rs STILL obstruct and say they CAN.

Unless us neighbours take matters into our own hand only THEN would police bother to turn up.

And school at end of road and all the cars that park on the yellow lines and turning circle!

It's unclear thought hat theres supposed to be LAW and ILLEGAL, on road users, but it's confusing f the HW is there but not enforced?

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