Graduate job offer query - tax accountancy

[soncareer]

Does anyone work in accountancy/finance? One of my sons has been offered a grad training scheme with a mid level company. It’s for tax to do the CTA and ATT qualifications.
It’s not something I really know anything about - work in a completely different field so don’t really feel able to advise him.
If he went ahead with this would specialising in tax (rather than trying to get a role with a company who would support him doing the wider ACA) really limit his future potential career opportunities?
(It's been a tough slog to get this offer so he's under no illusion that actually getting something else wouldn't be easy !)
Thanks for any info ...

My preferred route would be ACA because more options open later on. I did ACA and 5 years in tax at a top firm. Then moved to a specialist advisory area in same firm.

There's lots of areas of tax and it is a good career with more options to move into industry so you could do 3 years in tax, move to industry and then transfer within finance and managerial roles. ACA would make this easier.

Will he like techie legal work with constantly updating rules?

Yes, he would be a tax specialist down this route, but there shouldn't be any shortage on career progression. Only problem would be if he didn't like tax! Most people I know would have done ACCA/ACA first, and followed up with CTA, so they would still have the general accounting qualifications as well.

Would he really only be doing ATT and CTA?

[ACA qualified accountant, 20 years PQE, worked in audit, general practice and now in house in specialised industry role]

Personally I would prefer accountancy first with tax later. I am an FD who added tax in my 40s, having said that CTA was too hard for me, so I just added ATT. Caveat that I work in industry not practice.

Mind you, bird in the hand and all that. Two things inn life are certain, death and taxes. A lot of accountancy is going to automate or be done offshore by cheaper country's

Poor grammar due to auto correct!

This is the route I went down! Still in the business after 13/14 years. Plenty of opportunities for me to move into a more advisory role if I wanted, or to stay with the numbers.

Thank you ! This is all really useful. (I struggle with tax return - never mind anything else.)
It is specifically a tax graduate scheme he has been offered.
The company do other broader accountancy schemes but he wasn't offered one of those.
(Although I wonder if you do well early on - if there might be any room for movement into different area.)

Yes, specialising in tax from the start would limit future options as he won't have experience in all the other aspects of accountancy, such as accounts preparation, audit, business advisory, management accounting, etc. He risks being "trapped" in tax.

He may also not make it as all his studying/exams will be concentrated on tax so he could easily end up being bored or just incapable of the very tough, very detail heavy exams he'd have to take.

General accountancy, (ACA, ACCA) is a lot more general, so will include a much wider range of study/exams, and tax at a lower level, so it's arguable exams may be easier, but certainly the studying will be more interesting as you're doing a much broader range of subjects.

Most people, I think, would move on to tax specialism after qualifying as a general accountant if it was something that they were good at, and interested in.

(Although I wonder if you do well early on - if there might be any room for movement into different area.)

Trouble is that the firm will be paying a "qualified" wage but he'd effectively be a lowly trainee if he moved to a different department after successfully completing his tax qualifications. That makes no sense for an accountancy practice, as they'll have a ready stream of cheaper graduates to take those training places, so I don't really think it would happen in practice.

I forgot to say. I've worked in accountancy practices for 35 years and seen (and trained) many trainees. I've seen loads of ACA/ACCA trainees move into specialise in tax after experiencing a broad range of work, but never seen a tax trainee move sideways into accounts/audit/management accounting.

Thanks User - really useful

I work in tax too (and joined a big 4 firm on a tax grad scheme) but still did ACA. I actually haven’t done CTA as it’s not mandatory at my firm and in fact the partners don’t encourage you to do it if you’ve always worked in tax as they think you get better experience on the job. I have heard though that there might be a new joint accountancy/tax chartered qualification. I would say my preference would be to do ACA even when working in tax just for the wider opportunities as many others have said. Are you in London OP? Have found many more tax in industry jobs in London rather than in the regions so may be easier to make a move out of practice later on.

We are South East so London relatively easy

Big 4 here and did ATT (like the poster above, CTA is optional and I didn't do it. Still pretty senior without it).

No one I have worked with has had accountancy exams, all just tax.

I work in a pretty niche bit of tax though - not actually that technical, more strategic. Lots of in house movement or to other providers in the niche I'm in but not to wider finance roles.

Thanks everyone for all the input - it's been really helpful and I've passed it on to DS.

Im ACA. Well FCA actually (ACA with grey hair!). I would do ACA then, if he wanted, CTA too given a chance to keep options open. However, if tax is his passion, then go for this.

If he starts with ATT, there is a route which combines ACA with CTA. It is increasing in popularity, as CTA is usually taken after ACA/ACCA. I assume they have offered him an apprenticeship to cover their costs, so I imagine there may be scope at the end of his ATT to do the joint level 7 apprenticeship once he has proved his worth.

If he starts with ATT, there is a route which combines ACA with CTA.

Indeed there is, but you still need support of the employer, firstly to financially support the tuition/exam costs and give additional study leave/exam leave, and also to provide relevant work experience.

From what the OP says, it sounds like they're not that flexible and are wanting a tax trainee. So, whether they'd accommodate someone starting in tax and then moving over as a trainee in accounts is something that would need to be checked.

Yes that's right User it's a tax graduate scheme

I did ATT and CTA with a big 4 firm, moved to an in-house tax role with a FTSE 10 company, and have moved to run a tax team at a multi national firm. It will not hinder him and depending on what strand of tax he does could be a significant advantage. It’s a tax qualification, it’s well respected and a good one, and he has done well to get an offer. ACA is more general, and great if he wants a general finance role, or general finance options. If he likes the firm and wants to do tax he should accept this and be proud of himself, it’s hard to get graduate jobs in practice these days.

Oh I’ve also seen a lot of people move from finance to tax, but no one I’ve worked with has wanted to leave tax for finance 😄

The mid tier firms such as BDO, GT, Smith & Williamson, Mazars etc all offer exactly the same generous study packages as the Big 4 for both audit & tax routes. They train with BPP, Kaplan or First Intuition in the classroom or using firm specific online training programmes with those same training providers for ICAEW or CTA. This applies to both the audit & tax grad schemes. The majority are putting their grads through the apprenticeship route to make use of the apprenticeship levy so the training doesn't cost them a penny, just time out of the office, typically 5 days per module for a classroom based course. The OP's DS really doesn't need to have any concerns about the study support available. The joint CTA ICAEW qualification is specifically designed for tax trainees and they would not need to switch departments, in exactly the same way as audit trainees can complete ICAEW without ever setting foot in a tax dept. The joint qualification is being heavily pushed by both CTA & ICAEW as it cuts back on the total number of papers required by dropping the ICAEW's BPT paper and hence the time out of the office as both are completed within 3 or 4 years, rather than having the usual gap between finishing ICAEW and building the confidence to tackle CTA.

In the mid tier & Big 4 firms, typically 20-25% of joiners specialise in tax from day 1, the remainder will join advisory & assurance teams, hence the emphasis on ICAEW in all of their promotional literature, with the odd student joining a more specialist team such as charities, or public sector straight away. Very few trainees in firms of this size join a traditional accounting team, those who do tend to start with AAT and then have the opportunity to go down the ACCA or ICAEW route after completing their level 3 & 4.

Duchess I know all of the exams are tough but some things I've read suggest that CTA is particularly difficult to pass. Is that something you found?

Dearover that's really useful info - thanks

I did ATT then CTA, specialising in indirect tax (so even more niche). If I had my time over I would do exactly the same again. Interesting, varied, well paid career. I am now in industry and also have great work life balance.