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Anybody with ADHD who has done a masters/ PHD?

76 replies

DottyTheFrog · 22/01/2020 19:15

I got through my undergrad undiagnosed/ unmedicated doing assignments the night before, hating myself and being super stressed but survived and got a lowish 2.1. Also had a much trickier life then - started with a 5mo baby and escaped an abusive relationship which left my anxiety so heightened that I could barely leave the house and hardly went to any lectures for my 2nd and 3rd year.

Started my masters this year, and I've just failed one of the modules. My essay for another one was even worse than this one, so I've likely failed that too. I've never failed even one essay before.

I'm medicated now, which is helpful at work, but wears off by the evening time when DD goes to bed and I need to study. I just can't focus, and can't stop myself procrastinating, until the essay is due.

I've read that often, people with ADHD reach an educational stage where they just cannot cope, and it's not possible to pass and do assignments at the last minute anymore. Might be college, might be undergrad, might be masters...

I really wanted to get my professional doctorate after this. That's always been my plan, and I always believed I can do it. But I guess this has made me realise that I likely can't.

I switched to part time study a couple of weeks ago, doing it over 2 years instead of one, so hopefully that'll help a bit. But I just wondered if anybody had any positive tales of being able to achieve this level of study whilst having ADHD or another condition which prohibits your learning?

Long shot really. I don't know. Can't stop crying. So gutted.

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StegosaurusRex · 23/01/2020 17:02

@wheresmyrunningshoes Amazing lot of advice there. I definitely need to give some of those apps a shot. Thanks for sharing :)

wheresmyrunningshoes · 23/01/2020 22:02

I'd love to read that article. Can we all work part time then? Grin I don't need much encouragement!

Coaches:
www.simplywellbeing.com/

theadultadhdcoach.com/

www.geniuswithin.co.uk/

Classic adhd- I decided to apply for a job, it was last minute. They called and invited me for an interview the next day for the afternoon! This is where my adhd came in useful as despite only 1 hr prep...it wasn't a total disaster!

There is a facebook group called Accountability for ADHD/ASD'ers.

Oddgirlout · 24/01/2020 08:11

Morning all, I'm meeting with my superiors this am for first time. My main worry is they'll give me so much work I'm going to drown in it! Wish me luck!!!!

Interested in this thread?

Then you might like threads about this subject:

AdachiOljulo · 24/01/2020 09:20

not sure if my experience will be that useful to you.

my official diagnosis is ASD but a lot of ADHD aspects too. not diagnosed till I was 40ish so got through all of education undiagnosed and unmedicated.

undergrad was exactly as you describe - assignments done the night before or more usually the morning
between 5am and 9am the day they were due in. found it difficult to focus. got a 2.ii which should have excluded me from postgraduate study but I had got a first class grade on my practicals module which combined with a glowing reference from my practicals supervisor got me into a doctorate programme at a very low-ranking uni that probably struggles to recruit postgraduate students.

for the most part I enjoyed my 3 years of funded study during which I was mainly devising and running experiments which I loved and which didn't require "assignments" much. regular requirements to create a poster presentation or a short talk on my work so far were obviously similarly dreadful and done badly at the last minute but that was ok.

it all fell apart of course when I reached the end of my 3 years of funding with no thesis and an urgent need to earn money to support myself. I got a job and didn't think about my studies for a couple of years.

happily after that I got a new job with an employer who was really in to supporting staff in external activities like studying, volunteering, creative arts etc. the managers all had KPIs set to measure how much their direct reports were doing and how supportive they were being. its thanks to that job that I did eventually get the doctorate - I had access to the offices at weekends which provided a quiet place to work, and my line manager asking me every week in my 1:1 how much progress I had made did make me actually make progress and after a couple of years of that I finally managed to submit a thesis.

although different circumstances this might be somewhat applicable for your situation. you clearly love your subject and are talented in it but you just need extra support to get through the practicalities. I don't know anything about the medication side of things, but it might be that what you need isn't so much more time as more structured and detailed supervision - often a PhD supervisor is very hands-off and expects the students to be very independent and proactive but you will need a bit more engagement.

numberonecook · 24/01/2020 09:42

I have rapid cycling bipolar disorder. Concentrating is hard. I got through my undergrad very much in the same way you did, Un medicated, not paying attention to lectures, three kids to look after, in a blur and got a first class degree. I’m now doing a full time masters (one year) and it’s certainly harder to concentrate and keep myself focused. I’m doing ok so far but I know my dreams of a PHD are out of the window, I’ve had to come to terms with the fact my abilities are at their limit.

I also need a job and further study will put extra stress on me financially Hmm

Silvercatowner · 24/01/2020 09:53

I'm fairly sure I have ADHD and OCD. I'm nearing the end of my PhD and am loving it - I loathed school and found my undergrad and masters very challenging. Doctoral study is very different to masters. It requires far more independence and autonomy, and a huge amount of process stuff with regard to the organisation and presentation of your work. It suits me - but I do have an amazing supervisor, and I think that makes an enormous difference. Happy to chat by pm if it would help.

Silvercatowner · 24/01/2020 09:55

To add - I'm also working full time. I'm older and have been able to gain insights into the way I do stuff. It's hard but worth it.

chaineater · 24/01/2020 11:23

Checking in to read later...

DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 10:57

At the moment I can’t afford even £500 for a diagnosis although I’m pleased to hear that it could cost that little! So hopefully at a later date I’ll be able to scrape the money together.

I could not recommend 'Psychiatry UK' more. It's about half the cost of a face to face assessment, and all the psychiatrists are consultant-level and very qualified. Can't remember if you get a choice, but mine is called Dr Ilyas and he's amazing! It might be a little cheaper, that included the private prescription etc. so can't really remember. But yes, definitely recommend this route if you feel it's an avenue to consider. Shit that we even have to pay tbh but there we are.

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 10:59

*I've never considered I might have ADHD before, but I've done so much reading since it was suggested to me and it's really shocked me how much of it applies to me and the things that annoy me about myself.

The biggest revelations for me were the procrastination and rejection sensitive dysphoria. I always just thought I was lazy and useless, and never understood how people don't constantly obsess over every comment made about them.*

Same! It's crazy isn't it - when you first start looking into it and suddenly everything you've been beating yourself up over for years finally makes sense.

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 11:00

Morning all, I'm meeting with my superiors this am for first time. My main worry is they'll give me so much work I'm going to drown in it! Wish me luck!!!!

Sorry for the late reply @Oddgirlout, yesterday was crazy but I was wondering how it all went with your supervisor! Hope your meeting went well yesterday.

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 11:02

https://www.geniuswithin.co.uk/

The woman behind this did a talk at my uni a few months ago as she did the same course as I did - she's absolutely amazing! May have had a few glasses of wine at the networking event after and told her she's now a massive role model to me BlushGrin

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 11:02

Sorry, that was quoting the pp who previously mentioned the website, wouldn't let me bold!

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 11:06

Thanks @AdachiOljulo, and well done to you for working so hard to obtain your PHD! I'm actually doing a masters at the moment though hoping to do a professional doctorate after.

I agree with what you're saying - I think I need somebody to hold me accountable. I'm actually really excited at the thought of an ADHD coach/ mentor - have sent off my DSA forms now and really hoping to get funding for this, as I think it'll be life changing, tbh.

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 11:11

*I have rapid cycling bipolar disorder. Concentrating is hard. I got through my undergrad very much in the same way you did, Un medicated, not paying attention to lectures, three kids to look after, in a blur and got a first class degree. I’m now doing a full time masters (one year) and it’s certainly harder to concentrate and keep myself focused. I’m doing ok so far but I know my dreams of a PHD are out of the window, I’ve had to come to terms with the fact my abilities are at their limit.

I also need a job and further study will put extra stress on me financially*

Argh - it's shit isn't it! I have realised that I definitely couldn't do a traditional PHD, but I'm hoping I still might be able to do the prof doc as it's much more work-based. Tbh though you got a first class degree with three kids unmedicated. You're a fucking genius in my eyes. I'm thinking maybe you could do it? Sad to give up on your dreams when you're clearly more than capable.

But I get that sometimes the stress and self-loathing (or is that just me Blush) that comes with it all may not be worth it. Plus the money thing - just saw that. Don't know if you've seen that you can get student loans for PHDs now? But they're likely not enough to live on. Just thought I'd mention it as I think they're quite new.

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OhTheRoses · 25/01/2020 11:13

Okay. I have a grown up dd with ADHD diagnosed privately.

I suspect your difficulties at present are because of the many plates you are juggling: work, parenting, studying, rather than your neuro developmental disability.

DD was diagnosed privately and started on Ritalin. She then went on the waiting lust for the adult adhd service which I suspect has a waiting list of at least a year. She has 6 monthly reviews and the specialist nurse tweaks and titrates her meds with recommendations to GP.

Slow down op and be kind to yourself; resolve the sleep issue, take a break from your studies whilst waiting for the adult service, have therapy for resillience and most if all have some fun leaf kicking and puddle splashing, stargazing and blowing bubbles with your little one.

Give yourself time and get optimal care and then go well with the right support.Flowers

BertieBotts · 25/01/2020 11:25

Haven't read the whole thread sorry.I have got a cold and my attention is even worse than usual.

Firstly HUGE congratulations for getting where you are. That is a PHENOMENAL achievement and you should be seriously, seriously proud. I've never managed to get past GCSEs to my utter utter shame and all my teachers'/parents' etc bemusement. Not for a lack of attempts either.

GO TO DISABILITY SERVICES. And your personal tutor. Tell them the problems that you're having, take some info on executive functioning difficulties (this is the main thing, I find, that gets in the way of stuff like education and life admin).

Extra time is pointless. Extra time is what they throw at you because they have no idea what support to provide you. You give somebody with ADHD extra time and they're going to spend the extra time daydreaming and staring at the clock - if anything with ADHD you need less time in order to give you a sense of urgency :o - Not my words BTW - from the wonderful Dr. Russell Barkley - have a listen to his lectures on youtube:

(Ignore the fact that says for parents - it's for anyone.) I couldn't focus on just the audio so I played it in segments while tidying up or putting away clothes. It's really, really good.

First rule of having something like ADHD: Do not expect anybody else to understand what ADHD is or what difficulties it presents for you, unless they are an expert in the disorder and even when they are, they are not an expert on you. Everyone has a slightly different case, and the sign of a good doctor/teacher/support person is when they are open to listening and taking on board what you ask for and helping in that sense. It's not reasonable or efficient to expect every teacher/support worker/etc to be an expert in every single disorder, whether that's dyslexia, ADHD, autism, etc. You need to be the expert on it so that you can communicate clearly what it is that you need from them.

For example, you probably don't need extra time in exams. But you might need to spread units out so that the degree takes twice as long overall. That's a good accommodation and one which works well with being a single parent. It's how I got through my first year of uni (and then forgot to go to the exams - long story). You very possibly could do with somebody who is good at pacing to sit with you and an academic calendar (or digital calendar, but I found a wall one much more visual and helpful), go through all of the assignment due dates and block out however many weeks they would usually recommend spending on them, multiplied by 1.5 for you, 2 if any overlap, before each deadline. Bear in mind that if you spread out the time too much, you'll be starting before you've attended the relevant lectures and seminars, which makes it really difficult if not impossible - this is one reason to spread out to part time doing half the number of usual units. Neurotypical students can typically cope (if barely!) with 3-4 assignments ongoing at the same time but with ADHD this is an organisational not to mention a focusing nightmare.

Once you've got your overview of the time you need to spend on things you can then block out the number of evenings, naptimes, nursery sessions (whenever you usually work). REMIND YOURSELF to keep a few in reserve to account for a poorly child, an evening when you yourself are exhausted and fall asleep at 7pm, and so on. So if you can usually complete an assignment in 8 "work blocks" you must allow 10-12 - just in case.

I would recommend not to ask your tutor for flexibility with deadlines. Often we "need" the stress of a deadline to actually get something done. Possibly though ask him/her for a (limited!) number of "free passes" for extensions because there will be times when you need one, but you need to sort of kid yourself that they won't be easily got so that you don't fall back and rely on them.

I don't know if all of the above is still valid for a postgrad - sorry Blush but those are the kinds of things I would start to think about along the lines for. Also writing yourself a sort of "instruction manual" as in how to write an essay (e.g. step 1: Collate all relevant lecture notes, step 2: Access all relevant readings, etc). Oh, also, electronic versions of readings were a lifesaver for me. If this isn't currently accessible to you, ask for that - your tutors might be able to request digitisation of the relevant chapters. This is phenomenally useful, partly because you can use tools such as "find in this page" but also because you can access them anywhere and don't need to worry about physical books/papers, keeping them away from the toddler, light sources to read, or LATE FEES (which are known as the ADHD tax in my house).

Re medication: If you're on an extended release type, you could try taking it 2-3 hours later in the morning. You will lose a bit of productivity at work, but gain some more focus and clarity in the evenings. Or is it possible to change your schedule so that you take work into uni and work on it in the library? Even one session a week of this could be hugely productive. If you are on an instant release medication, you can mimic an extended release by cutting a tablet in half and taking it in two parts. You could then take three on days that you really need to study, as long as you find it doesn't affect your sleep too badly. You could also ask about switching from instant release to extended release or vice versa - as this wouldn't actually be a change in medication, it's possible your GP would be open to discussing it or referring you to somebody who can on the NHS.

BertieBotts · 25/01/2020 11:42

Gone to read back a bit, random thoughts:

I reckon (medication wearing off aside) we tend to focus better at night because everything is calm and still and there aren't as many distractions as in the day. Even MN and Facebook are slow at night so not as much to pull your attention away. Obviously though that has a knock on effect on sleep, which is OK if you can sleep in "late" and have a non-standard sort of timetable to your day, but not everyone has that luxury, if you have children/a standard job/early classes. Worth noting Delayed Sleep Phase Disorder is associated with ADHD, and if you have the option to sustain a non-standard sleep pattern, this can actually be a good "life hack" for those with ADHD and/or suspected DSPD.

I agree with other posters that single parenting + work + potentially neurodiverse child (even one you can supposedly "understand" better) + study is all a LOT even without ADHD. Seriously!!

And DS1 who was finally diagnosed age 10 was HARD WORK between the ages of 3 and 5.

I take a non stimulant med and it doesn't have that sudden on/off switch feeling that stimulant meds apparently do (I have nothing to compare with, because MPD did nothing for me). It sort of builds up over time instead and slightly raises my level of functioning. It did take several weeks to sort of calibrate though and during those weeks I felt like I was in the first trimester of pregnancy with the tiredness, nausea and brain fog. Once I've got used to it those symptoms disappear, but they are a problem short term. It doesn't stop me from sleeping, in fact it seems to make me hungry/tired on a normal person's schedule which is quite nice.

DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 12:35

I'm fairly sure I have ADHD and OCD. I'm nearing the end of my PhD and am loving it - I loathed school and found my undergrad and masters very challenging. Doctoral study is very different to masters. It requires far more independence and autonomy, and a huge amount of process stuff with regard to the organisation and presentation of your work. It suits me - but I do have an amazing supervisor, and I think that makes an enormous difference. Happy to chat by pm if it would help.

That's interesting, thank you. Ill definitely PM you if I think of any questions! My doctorate would be very work-based, with mostly portfolios etc. though does include a hefty thesis - I'm hoping after my masters to start a business doing something I'm ridiculously interested in (academically, professionally and personally) that would absolutely be a relevant topic for the thesis and portfolios, so I'm hoping I'll struggle a little less there. A lot of academic research in my area is based on ADHD, actually - it's listed as a research interest for several of my lecturers. So I guess ideally I'll get a supervisor who understands a little bit about ADHD, as well as my topic, IYSWIM.

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 12:42

Scraped a pass in my other essay that I thought I'd fail, so I've passed that module. Failed the one I mentioned in my OP, and I'm pretty sure I'll have done reasonably well in the third one (the exam was mostly multiple choice, on research methods - so there was a definite answer IYSWIM and I felt I was sure of my answer for most of them).

So though my retake for the failed module will be capped at 50% (the minimum to pass), I should still average between 55-60% for the term.

I've gone part time now, like I said, so because of the extra module last term, I've only got one this term. This is good - I can throw everything into it and get myself into good habits without feeling overwhelmed. Reckon I still stand a chance of getting a merit overall (60%+) and maybe even a distinction (70%+), as long as I make the necessary changes now.

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DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 12:52

*Okay. I have a grown up dd with ADHD diagnosed privately.

I suspect your difficulties at present are because of the many plates you are juggling: work, parenting, studying, rather than your neuro developmental disability.

DD was diagnosed privately and started on Ritalin. She then went on the waiting lust for the adult adhd service which I suspect has a waiting list of at least a year. She has 6 monthly reviews and the specialist nurse tweaks and titrates her meds with recommendations to GP.

Slow down op and be kind to yourself; resolve the sleep issue, take a break from your studies whilst waiting for the adult service, have therapy for resillience and most if all have some fun leaf kicking and puddle splashing, stargazing and blowing bubbles with your little one.

Give yourself time and get optimal care and then go well with the right support.*

Thank you. What a kind post. You're right - I do need to be kinder to myself, and spend more time having fun with DD instead of being constantly stressed. We've been at the woods this morning, and we're baking this afternoon Smile

I really don't want to drop out - I actually love my course and I love to learn; I missed it so much in the year between my graduation and starting my MSc. But I was silly to try and do it full time - I stopped enjoying it and it just became yet another chore and ball to feel guilty about dropping.

I think that I am resilient; I was a homeless drug addict at 15, homeless again after fleeing an abusive relationship whilst pregnant at 21, got my degree with a little baby when every time I left the house I'd have a panic attack as we were at such risk from my daughter's dad etc. I've got through a lot, and I don't let things keep me down for very long, I just mope for a couple of days and then KOKO (which I think is resilience?). However, I could definitely do with therapy in general. I think most people could. Decent therapy's kind of out of reach atm though, until my financial situation improves.

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Northernsoullover · 25/01/2020 12:58

I haven't read the full thread yet but I have ADHD and have just been awarded DSA. Check out Mindview software. It is absolutely amazing. It organises your thoughts the way your brain can't.

DottyTheFrog · 25/01/2020 13:14

@BertieBotts I've only skimmed through your post as DDs finished her lunch now; I need to go back and read it properly - but I can see that there are some amazingly useful things in there. I especially like the essay 'instruction manual' - this will REALLY help as I always feel too overwhelmed to actually start, and forget where to - even though I've wrote dozens, obviously! And giving myself double the amount of weeks to do assignments. And the wall calendar etc. So many things that will help me so much!

You're so right about having 3-4 assignments (and modules) at once - I've just switched to part time (doing it over 2 years instead of one) and I know it's going to be so much better! I have been feeling a bit of a failure about it though, so it's so nice to have it reiterated that not being able to cope isn't because of my intelligence or laziness or whatever.

I think maybe I will try to take my medication a couple of hours later. Worth a try! I've also ordered some melatonin which I've heard is often lacking naturally for people with ADHD, causing sleep problems. I think this is likely - it's something I've always struggled with. Delayed Sleep Disorder is an interesting one - I'd snooze till midday if I could, so it's not that my body doesn't stay asleep, I just can't sleep at the time society dictates! V interesting.

Thank you SO much for taking the time to write all that. As I said, I need to read it all properly but I know it's going to be so useful. Will listen to the lecture you suggested later Smile thank you!

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OhTheRoses · 25/01/2020 13:48

From what you have written @DottyTheFrog you have achieved an enormous amount despite tertible adversity. Please get yourself on the waiting lists for NHS therapy and adhd service. You should be very very proud of yourself. DD was very ill at one point; she recovered with family support and me fighting her corner. As she got older the adhd became harder for her to manage and was undiagnosed until she was 17, depressed, anxious and self harming.

You have so very much to be proud of and this is a set back to allow you to take the next steps towards self management. You are amazing and an inspiration.

BertieBotts · 25/01/2020 14:54

Oh yes sorry - I definitely meant modules not units, you're right :)

Don't worry if the lecture takes you a few days to get through. In many ways it's actually better to break it up as each little bit is so interesting it can be useful to have some time to digest it.

Melatonin is a really good idea. I also have implemented a little what I call my "wind down routine" where I set an alarm and at 10pm ish I make myself step away from the computer (I achieve this by telling myself I'm just going to make a cup of tea and I can come right back). While the kettle is boiling, because I'm away from my computer I can reason with myself to decide whether I want to continue whatever it was I was doing, or whether I want to take this last chance to read or play guitar. Sometimes I think "Yeah.... that facebook argument really isn't as important as it felt" and sometimes I think "Oh, I'm having a nice chat with X, I'd like to continue".

I have also taken time to note down which activities tend to "suck me in" and keep me glued to the screen - so playing computer games, watching TV (even if the duration of the episode is less than 1hr, because I go off and read reviews and look for discussion pages for ages afterwards), posting on topics I can really drone on about, and get stuck into writing a post which can take me over an hour (ADHD is one of those - ahem), getting sucked into emotional/dramatic threads, compiling random, mostly pointless spreadsheets - these are all OFF LIMITS! After 10pm, if I do choose to continue my screen time. If I'm listening to music, I switch to my "wind down" playlist on Spotify, which contains only calming songs and nothing that makes me feel energetic. This, plus the hot drink, and for a while I used to have my shower at the hot-drink-time too so being all clean and wrapped in towels seems to help me into a natural tendency towards feeling tired and ready for bed, and I try to go to bed at around/before 11pm.

At some point I'd like to get smart bulbs set up properly in the living room and bedroom so that I can program them to slowly fade to a dim red tone during this wind down period, it's too expensive at the moment. You can get filters that go over your phone/computer screen and do this for you too. I didn't really love them, though.

I've found that understanding where I'm deficient and which points I'm likely to stall at or what I'm likely to find a stumbling block is useful in implementing strategies to outsource these brain processes, interrupt the brain farts or bridge gaps.

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