Do rude people know they're rude?

[handinclove]

This isn't meant to be goady in any way but I really am baffled and the only alternative is to directly ask someone which feels confrontational.

I'm not talking about major issues and nastiness but those low level irritations that really bug me. Things that make me feel like someone has no social skills or manners.

I was at a work event recently which was going to be really useful to every single person there. People had taken time out of their busy days to organise it, find speakers etc and a couple of people whispered throughout, were on their phones and generally being quite disrespectful and they've been like this before so it wasn't a one-off.

When I was studying, people in lectures would do the same all the time and always the same people.

So many times I see people turning up late to lectures or meetings but with a coffee or sandwich they'd bought on the way. If it might make me late I don't get a coffee because I'm more concerned about getting there on time and I certainly wouldn't stroll into class with it.

I listen, if I need to check my phone I'll be discreet or leave the room.

I don't talk when someone else is talking.

I guess what I'm curious about is whether those people realise they're rude and inconsiderate. Do they notice other people looking at them when they're disrupting the group?

Or, do they know they're rude but don't care?

I thought this was going to be about people like me who don't get offended easily and aren't sure where others might draw the line.

I wouldn't give a meeting less than my full attention unless I saw it as a box ticking exercise, office politicking or other complete waste of my busy time. Even at those events I haven't been disruptive to others.

People tend to devalue things that are free, or that someone else has paid for.

I think some people think I’m rude. I have ASD. I’m not great with social cues. Sometimes I talk over people. I think it depends, I may come across as rude but I actually try really hard not to, I often kick myself later. I’d find an event like the one you went to exhausting!

There are some rude people who just don’t care. I’ve worked with a couple of people who pride themselves on ‘telling it like it is’, ‘what you see is what you get with me’...one even said ‘I know I’m a bitch but at least I’m honest about it’. Personally I think that’s much worse. They’re rude, they know they are but they just don’t care 🤷🏼‍♀️

I have found that just about every course/meeting/speaking event I have ever been to there have been some people who talk through out it. They are a minority but they do that kind of loud whisper that even more annoying than actual talking.

I'm on a course at the moment - when the course organizer was doing the housekeeping the start he specifically mentioned that people shouldn't talk over others when they are speaking or talk over him when he is speaking. Within minutes of this request two women were talking over him in loud whispers.

I have no idea why people do this - they must know it is wrong - because they whisper, if they thought it was fine they'd just talk in a normal voice.
I can only assume they think they are so important that rules only apply to other people not them.
I think there is also (in UK)a sort of inbuilt reticence to call people out on their rude behaviour - in the course I am on the speaker did at one point say to them 'is everything OK? do you have a question' - by which he meant 'please shut up' but they just carried on. Maybe if speakers said stuff like 'if you want to talk instead of listen, get out because you're spoiling it for everyone else' people might learn.

With other types of rudeness - again I'm not sure. I used to be married to a very rude man. I think sometimes he was oblivious and things came out on the wrong tone or he chose his words poorly so sounded ruder than he intended. But other times he was rude because he thought he was being funny, or he wanted to be rude, or he was showing off.

(Example would be - he used to like going into say a bakers and saying 'can I have half a dozen stale horrible rolls please' and when they said 'we don;t sell stale rolls' he'd say ' Oh that's odd because I bought some here yesterday'. And he'd think he was hilarious. Everyone else thought he was a complete tool obviously.)

I think a lot of rude folk are just utterly self absorbed - the sort of people who walk straight at you and it's always you who has to move out of their way or get banged into. They only think about their own needs.

This is why «Did you mean to be so rude?» is a rubbish comeback. Because a lot of the time the answer will be «Yes».

I work for one of these. She thinks it shows she's a power player. But really she just comes across as scatty and rude. People who knew her when she did the same job as me told me what she's like, but she didn't do it for 6 months. Once she got comfortable she started. It is odd because she is nice and kind in other ways, she just has no respect for other people's time.

There is a horrible woman at work that starts talking loudly whenever anyone else speaks. It's a small office, but if she's talking at her usual volume you honestly can't hear the person sat next to you.

Or she will join a conversation and repeat random words that are said. Really loudly. Yesterday
'we have the estate agent coming later'
-ESTATE AGENT YEH
'we really need an extra bedroom'
-BEDROOM. THAT'S IT
'I need to tidy'
-TIDY

It is driving me mad.

I think most of the time as a PP has said, it's oblivious self-absorption.

ASD-related poor social skills arise from confusion and inability to navigate the social landscape; most people with this condition are aghast at offending others and getting it wrong.

Rude people, on the other hand, may choose not to take notice of how others might feel, or they may actually be unaware, but the key thing is that they think they are more important than you are. That's what stings about them. The people who elbow their way into the queue, or those who bulldoze into you on the street like you're an ant then stare at you as if you shouldn't exist, or the big boss manager who, when you say hello, looks at you as if their vacuum cleaner just spoke to you. It's nano-aggressions.

I'm rude...
Sometimes it's meant... Sometimes it's not...
On one hand, I'm crap socially ...
On the other hand, I can't stand stupid people (made worse if I'm under pressure, tired or hormonal)
Just don't get offended by me

Pippa that's called echolalia and there are a number of reasons it might happen including autism, PDD, brain injury and schizophrenia. Problems with volume control alongside are also common. I wouldn't assume someone displaying echolalia was rude.

When my daughter was at university there was a student who was always late. He'd come into the large lecture room, usually trip (had to be deliberate, done for a laugh, as it happened too often) and smile and nod and wink at people as he went up the steps towards the back of the room.

One day, after doing it three or four times running, he opened the door and the lecturer screamed "Get out!" When the student tried to argue the lecturer screamed again "I am not putting up with this! Get out!"

He wasn't late again

Perceptions of rudeness vary so much though. Talking loudly on long train journeys etc. There's no rule against it, it's a free country etc.

I'm not really talking about people being rude to other people

I dislike situations like that.

But what you described is other people being rude to another person so I don't really get your last post.

FFS, I hate that you can't edit on here, I didn't mean to press send!

Anyway, I'm not talking about people who are deliberately rude to other people, say mean things or whatever and these people don't show any signs that they have ASD.

One of the people I'm talking about is nice I guess (although I'm not keen on her). She's friendly, I've never heard her be rude to someone etc

But she will be 10-15 minutes late to a lecture and arrive with a coffee and a breakfast sandwich which she's clearly stopped for on the way.

What I'm trying to work out (without asking her) is does she know that's rude? Does she realise that it's not ok to do that?

She does lack some self awareness in other ways but surely at some point she's learnt some basic manners.

And the people on their phones and chatting during a talk/meeting. Surely they know that this is rude?

This is what I can't work out.

@Alwaystheoddoneout but in the uni example they're accruing up to 19k a year debt for their course so although they might never clear their student loan debt, they are/will be paying.

I get where you're coming from OP. We have been going to holiday parks in the UK for our holidays for quite a few years, and most of them have a big entertainment area, with a bar, seating, a dancefloor and a stage. It is honestly quite amazing the sheer number of people who will walk across the empty dancefloor right in front of the stage during the entertainment, totally ignoring the performers on the stage and the hundreds of people watching They are totally oblivious, and it is such bad manners and so disrespectful towards the singers etc. I could understand small children doing it, but usually it is adults.

It’s quite often arrogance, I used to have a manager that every time a meeting was about to start he disappeared to buy a coffee. We then all had to sit & wait for his return. He just thought he was so special that common courtesy didn’t apply to him. Many examples of situations like this from people I work with. I don’t understand it. If I challenge them or point out what they are doing they get offended! So basically they only really care about themselves.

No, a lot of uni fees are paid for by their parents, or some people have bursaries or get their fees paid for financial reasons. If you're someone who pays the full fees, you won't have looked into all the ways the fees can be paid for or waived for certain people. When I was at uni, there were several people there for free and they almost used to show off about it by being rude and ignoring lecturers, turning up late etc.

I teach college students, a few have been forced to attend by their employers so they’re not overly enthusiastic students. Definitely have a few turn up late regularly clutching coffee and food. If people miss the register enough times it gets flagged up and they can be removed from the course.

Pure selfishness, I reckon.

Examples of thought process (or so I surmise; the I in the examples below isn’t me):

I want to look at Instagram so I will be walking slowly down the centre of this busy pavement in the town centre with my mouth hanging open, blocking the path of other people. Yes. Because I deserve to do whatever I want.

I will stop and chat to my friend at the top of this escalator in a busy shop because that is what we want to do now and you can all live with it.

I will walk into a meeting late with a coffee and a bacon butty because my food needs are more important than courtesy or anybody else’s time. I certainly can’t be bothered getting up in time to have breakfast at home, or anything. No. That doesn’t suit me.

I won’t RSVP to this invitation because I want to decide an hour before whether I can be bothered going. Stuff the hosts and their party planning. They must accommodate ME.

I would rather call the behaviour mentioned above "inconsiderate". To me, "rude" is a very subjective thing. To some people "rude" seems to be "not behaving just like me or doing what I want", while "inconsiderate" is more easily quantifiable.

A woman I work with is exceptionally rude. She thinks she is direct and no-nonsense.

Nope - rude and abrupt

As a few pp's have said, some people seem to think that being rude demonstrates importance/power- I have worked with loads of people who clearly think it makes them look important to arrive at every meeting late, carrying a coffee and then play on their phone or chat to the person next to them throughout.

I think there is another type of person who is so self absorbed that they simply don't think about the impact on anyone else (so they don't decide to be rude, but don't think enough about anyone else to consider whether they are). For example, I have a friend of a friend 'Anna' who considers herself to be extremely sensitive/concerned about what people think (and tells anyone who will listen how difficult this makes things for her). So she will spend ages deciding what to wear to go out, over-analysing comments made to her etc but then say and do incredibly rude things. Eg. a group of us recently went out for dinner to a new restaurant that had recently opened. Anna (and therefore 3 friends travelling with her) as half an hour late as when she saw what the others were wearing she decided her outfit did not 'go' with theirs. When they did arrive another friend made a comment about 'wasting away' if she was kept waiting any longer for food. Anna took me and another friend aside in the loo to discuss what this meant and whether the friend had an eating disorder! When the food came, she took one bite of the (very nice) sharing starter and made yuk/eaugh noises and said it was disgusting (very loudly). She is also well known as someone to avoid sitting with at school plays etc as she will make comments throughout. Yet as far as she is concerned she is incredibly sensitive and probably cares a bit too much what others think.