Universal Basic Income.

[Tumbleweed101]

I just read they may be trialling this in Hull and it could potentially replace Universal credit.

No finer details yet, but the basic concept is everyone - whatever their financial situation - is given a no questions asked fixed amount X amount for adults, X amount for any children which should cover the very basics of living costs (think it said housing help would be kept separate). Obviously this would stop all the means testing assessments and some people being without money entirely while they wait for assessments to be finalised etc. Would also reduce the administration costs of the current systems.

I wondered what every ones view were on this kind of system.

Personally I think it is a good idea. It would be a motivator to work as you'd gain from the income rather than it going on things just to survive for low earners - especially where there is little financial gain at the moment for some people in some jobs. It may give the economy a boost if more people have money to spend on things other than the basics. It's untaxed money for everyone so even higher earners will benefit from it.

On a more negative side, there is the potential for taxes to rise to pay for it and for the cost of things to rise because people may have more disposable income.

I think variations of this have been trialled or are being used elsewhere but I haven't researched enough to add any links.

It's an interesting idea. I'd make it taxable, but keep the personal allowance at a level that means those who depend on it solely are not taxed on it.

Do any countries currently have this?

I think it's nonsensical. If higher earners are getting 90k a year plus UBI, then it devalues the amount received by those only receiving UBI.

It’s a lovely idea.. so is the guy from postcode lottery whackin the door with that big arse cheque..

There does need to be some kind of upper cut off, realistically there’s no need for anyone on £90k to be receiving a basic payment. Cost of living would increase too, as people with disposable income have now an extra £400 minimum in their pots, which obviously doesn’t help those who only have the £400. Ive seen it won’t takeaway housing benefit (which is now UC) or disability benefits (or atleast they’d be paid at a current rate) which is good obviously. But I do agree with pp’s saying it should be taxed based on income some how.

I think Finland or somewhere in Europe tried something like this but it was only for two years and only the unemployed so while it took the stress off of applying for jobs 35hours a week you still had to be on your feet in 2 years.

This sounds completely loopy. Just looked it up in the Guardian online and it says that ‘People receiving disability payments would instead get the equivalent sum in universal basic income (UBI)’

So basically, does that mean that disabled people would just continue to get PIP/DLA but under a different name? No difference in their income then.

I can’t find much more detail so quite a basic concept so far.

On the surface I like the idea of not having to jump through so many hoops if I lost my job in order to get a bit of help until I got a new one. However I’m a low earning single parent so the idea of financial back up is appealing and would ease worry as I don’t have a second earner in the household.

Been tried in several countries and it doesn't work.

I mean it does work for the recipient, they don't have to work. But it doesn't work for the government as it's a drain on resources and the recipients don't pay enough back into the system to make the books balance.

Very interested in the concept of UBI and how we deal with the challenges of automation.

I think the difficulty at the moment is it seen as a replacement to benefits and we, broadly speaking as a society, view people on benefits as choosing not to work. The problem will become more acute when work isn't available due to automation and when that automation replaces middle class jobs. That will move public debate.

The trouble with UBI is that there isn't one clear definition of what it could mean. Most UBIs involve getting rid of tax allowances for example, so a basic rate tax payer would lose around £50 a Week in tax relief. It's interesting that support comes from both the left and the right, enough to make anyone suspicious.

What will the impact on low wages though? Will employers just think ‘Oh you’re getting £400 from the government so I don’t need to give you a pay rise’?

I think the idea is that taxes rise to pay for the UBI and the extra taxes wipe out the UBI for higher earners.

So people on low incomes have a reliable income without having to jump through all the UC application hoops, and money is saved on administration.

Whether or not it is possible to set up such a system where the UBI is enough, but not too much that some people will decide to live just on the UBI instead of working and also taxes don't rise have to for higher earners so they end up with less money so are effectively paying for other people to not work, I don't know.