Ex thinking he should pay less or no CM because we have a good income. Thoughts?

[LaksaLover]

Hi,

A bit of background- DCs dad and I broke up almost 8 years ago and our DC is now 13.

We both have new DPs (I'm married, he's engaged) and he is expecting a DC with his DP.

Financially, we are better off. We have a mortgage, whereas they still rent and our household income is, I suspect, a fair bit higher. He is self employed, so theirs varies a lot too.

Because of this, I have always given a bit of leeway with CM payments. I appreciate that some months they are struggling and so I will quite often recieve late payments. That said, there have been times, a lot of times actually, where I suspect he's just not managed his money well and puts going to the pub and saving for a holiday, before paying CM. As you can imagine, this hasn't gone down well with me.

As time as gone on, our income has increased quite significantly and whereas this isn't something I would discuss with my ex, he recently found out through our DC that we were moving to a house which has quite a hefty price tag and is quite a jump from our current house. Again, this isn't something I would discuss with him. I only told him that we were moving, as tbh, it isn't really any of his business.

Apparently DC showed him the house on Rightmove and he said something along the lines of "wow, if they can afford that, I don't think they need any help from me" We don't need help from him. It's not our money.

It was so inappropriate of him to say that in front of DC! She's very uncomfortable with the whole CM thing anyway, as she says it feels like he's paying me to spend time with her. This is because he can be very unsubtle (putting it mildly!) and will just give me cash in front of DC when he drops her off. I've asked him not to do this, as it's just not very nice, but he doesn't listen.

He has since said to me that he's seen the house, as if it was some dirty secret and that we can't need the same CM from him anymore.

This is absolutely outrageous, isn't it? CM isn't just paid to those in need. It is an entitlement and rightly so. As I say, I've been very reasonable over the years. Probably too reasonable actually.

Our relationship has been quite bumpy, but on the whole, we've managed to be quite amicable, but this might tip me over the edge and I strongly suspect it will get worse once his new DC is born.

Anyway, just needed to get this out. Would be good to hear your thoughts.

TIA

Surely any absent parent would be glad to pay for their child! It’s not necessarily about how much or how little, the child needs to know that the parent cared enough to at least pay something.

it is outrageous and very common I think. I am the high earner in our blended family and I have had my DSCs mother strongly imply that I should contribute to her maintenance payments, along similar lines to the above idea that you should only meet your children’s financial needs if no one else is about to do so. I imagine he would be livid at the suggestion that he doesn’t see himself as her parent mind you.

Go after the money, she is his daughter and he is responsible for her upbringing

How often does he have contact with his daughter.

And is the maintenance set by the two of your or court ordered, or assessed by the CMS?

Of course he should pay for his daughter but his payments can go down slightly when the new child arrives. If you are doing well, I assume that money is going into an account for your dd's future anyway.

My child's father was astounded that I dared ask him to start contributing to her upkeep as he sees her (not 50/50) and isn't an absent father. Luckily his girlfriend put him straight and he does now pay. Although if I was to do it officially I'd get a lot more. I have only asked for a nominal amount just to help take the pressure off.

Back to the OP, he's being a cheeky fucker and he needs to realise his child is still his responsibility.

Cheeky bastard. He sounds very bitter and is probably jealous of your success.

Perhaps it's time to formalise the child support payments and insist that it is paid directly into the bank via standing order.

He is paying for his DC.
Maybe have him pay for after school activities or school books or uniforms directly so he knows that the money is not going to you but directly to DC.

There’s not going to be much you can do here as he’s self employed and he’ll just fudge his income if you put in a claim to child maintenance service. I’d honestly let it go because he won’t even accept the boundaries you put in place over how he gives you the money.

Her has a child (soon to be 2) so he has a responsibility for that child. If he doesn't want to pay does he want dd full time?

If dd goes to uni have loans will be based on your income, doe he want to make up the extra?

He is not “helping you”, he is contributing to his daughter’s upkeep and from your posts it sounds like he is underpaying. It’s awful of him to make comments in front of your daughter. I would insist on seeing his P60 annually and using the cms calculator to claim the correct amount.

yanbu - cm would still be due from him even if you were a millionaire because noone gets to abdicate all responsibility for a child (unless surrendering the child to adoption). your DD has two parents and both share the responsibility to support her emotionally, financially and in any other way she needs it. it isn't about how much you need, it is that he doesn't get to abdicate.

YNBU and he is trying to make this something nasty that it doesn't need to be. Unfortunately it is really common as others have said. The best thing to do IMO is maintain your boundaries and save for DD if you are able to do so..ultimately she will know that you were being fair regardless of what her dad may say he will just look like a man who will happily let others pay for his child.

Hmmmmm I have differing views on this. On the one hand I say absolutely he should be paying you CM regardless of your income. However Me and my ExP have been split for 6 years now. He also has a new partner and a DD with her. And I have a DH and we have always been the higher earners and we can manage and provide my DD with everything she wants and needs. We stopped our CM coming from ExP purely for the fact that. Yes we earn Considerably a lot more than Exp and it was just so much easier than arguing back and forth about it. Id rather ExP keep his money and be able to afford to treat DD to something fun at the weekend or take her somewhere nice and make memories with her. There have been times where I've had to say "OY ExP your DD has ruined her new school shoes 3 weeks after I've bought them its your turn" or he will turn up and he will say "I've bought DD all new uniform and some new clothes for summer"

it just made my life so much easier knowing I wasn't chasing him for money that ultimately I did not need. But he is more than willing to put his hand in his pocket in other ways.

Thanks for all the replies so far.

To answer some questions- ex sees our DD once a fortnight. He doesn't share any of the child care in terms of school holidays etc. He has never taken her on holiday, but has been several times on his own. Even promised to take her a couple of times and let her down last minute.

As far as getting courts involved, yes, I've no doubt he would fudge his accounts. I remember right in the beginning when he had gf number 1 (there were lots) she apparently told him that because he was self employed, she'd worked it out and I'd only be entitled to £50pm legally, so basically I should stop whining and just be thankful for what he gives me. This was when I said that if he didn't start paying me a consistent amount, I'd need to go down the legal route. So you can imagine how I took that!

Regardless of his circumstances, legally his responsibility towards his children ceases when they turn 18. Morally, his responsibility only ceases if they are no longer his children. It would be the drippiest of all dripfeeds, so I presume your now DH is not adopting DD, in which case ex-DP should continue to financially support her.

I believe when the new baby arrives CMS would reduce his payments to you to accommodate, and therefore you should do this.

If your position is a comfortable one but there are things in the future that his money could pay towards (education, her own transport, house deposit), then if it was me I would absolutely take it for her, and I would also request (with "no" not being an option) that payments be made by standing order into a bank account.

If he argues the toss then I would absolutely suggest that you have his financial responsibility formalised - by going through official channels.

So is your ex-husband happy for another man ie your now DH to financially support your DD? Because that’s what he’s basically suggesting and it stinks. My ex does this and it’s not fair and not right. Your DD has
Two bio parents who are jointly responsible whether they like it or not.

@hookiwooki I believe when the new baby arrives CMS would reduce his payments to you to accommodate, and therefore you should do this

Isn't that strange though? So if he decides to have another 5 DCs, then my DC would end up with probably nothing, by that system. I know that's an extreme example and is very unlikely, but it still seems odd. I would only have another DC if I could afford to and that would include my other DC not going without.

Saying all that, I was actually considering suggesting that he paid less when his new DC was born, but he's not paying loads as it is.

I would only have another DC if I could afford to and that would include my other DC not going without. I agree. When we decided to have kids we sat down and discussed how we felt about this kind of situation and DH said that he would always pay what he could afford for our children if we split, that if he could only afford another child if it meant ours going without he would rather make sure he didn't have any more.

Isn't that strange though? So if he decides to have another 5 DCs, then my DC would end up with probably nothing, by that system. The amount is decided per child based on income, not per household based on income. The former means that if a parent has £600 maintenance available and 5 children from one relationship and 1 child from another, then for example each child receives £100. The latter would mean £300 per household, so 1 child receives £300, and 5 children receive £60 each. The system we have is by no means perfect, but it's the better of the two as far as general expenses go.

Roughly what is he earning, and what does he give you (and how often)?

@hookiwoooki, being self employed, his incomes varies quite a lot. I would say on average it's about 5% of his salary.

If he thinks he pays less as you earn more, would it go the other way? If you met with some misfortune (obv let's hope not!) and lost income and house, would he pay more? I very much doubt it.

My husbands ex is married to the CEO of a very well known huge company. He still paid maintenance and now his dc is at uni still sends them money.

Maintenance is for the child. And it's not about seeing the child. My husband hasn't had regular contact with his dc in over 10 years but always paid maintenance on time and at the calculated amount.

That is ridiculously low. Standing order to be received once per month for the full 5%, no late payments or quibbles, or you'll formalise your entitlement with CMS. A quick Google tells me this would currently be 12% as you have one child together. He'd have to fiddle his income by more than half to pay what he has been paying. If you're happy with the 5%, tell him how it is and put the ball in his court, but don't let him continue to take the piss as he has been.

5% of his salary is insulting both to you and his child.

This is common unfortunately, my ex husband is exactly the same. My DH and I earn probably double what he and his DP do but obviously that’s not our problem- they could always get better paid jobs. We own our ( 5 bed) house, they rent a small two bed council house and live with her two children. So yes, there is some major disparity and he has in turn figured he can get away with paying less than he should over the years. He pays the minimum expected, never a penny more and has never offered to help with any expenses such as uniform, trips etc. Just the way it is.

@corduroyal, ha! Of course he wouldn't.

@motortroll, exactly.

@hookiwooki, it is low, yes and it used to be half that for the first couple of years. This was around the time he was with that charming woman who tried to intervene, so that my DD would go without. Lovely lady 👍 She went on a couple of very expensive holidays with him too. Good job my ex had the sense not to introduce her to our DD

He really could/can be such a dick. There was another time he told me his mates at the pub had almost been bragging that they don't pay for their DCs (whilst pissing their CM up a wall presumably) in an almost, so just be grateful that I give you anything, kind of way.