How to support DD - not fitting in at school

[insanepizza]

My DD is 12 - in Year 8. I have known something was up for a while and saw a message over Christmas from a girl apologising that everyone was picking on her and that she would try to be nicer to her next term. Tonight she broke down and said she is pretty much ignored and she's utterly miserable.

I have said that we will go and speak to her tutor with her this week. I have run through everything I can think of such as trying to make friends outside her tutor group, reading in tutor room etc. None of these seem to be the answer.

So what do I do, how can I help her? To me she is funny, kind, bright girl. She still likes to play with her little brother and isn't into make up etc. Perhaps that makes her a bit different but she isn't an oddball or anything (not that that justifies unkindness either). She says she isn't being bullied but neither are they being kind.

Any advice on supporting her/what to expect of the school etc. I am so gutted for her.

OP please don't worry that this will definately carry on until year 10. That only happened to me because I didn't tell a soul what was happening. I was so mortified and conscious of everyone, including my parents and the teachers thinking I was socially inept. Social exclusion was exactly how it happened to me.

I initially made a good group of friends, but a couple of girls constantly caused problems. We weren't the "cool" group and one girl clearly wanted go be. Another girl in the group wanted to protect her own place so together they picked people off one by until the whole group fell apart - some girls moved forms (including one of these two girls), some even left the school. I was left completely on my own as I stayed but didn't fit in the "in" group that was left.

You are doing the absolute best thing for your dd. If I had spoken up as she did, my dm could have spoken to the school as you have, much earlier and i'm confident that it would have been much better for me. The times I wished I could have just moved forms - every girl that did, made good friends in the form they had moved to. Good luck OP

Ugh. This makes me sad. I have a boy in year 8 and he's fine but it was a worry of mine I must admit when he joined secondary school. Friendships are weird at this age and I have spent a lot of time with him building his confidence. My focus has been on different friends from different areas of life - so, he walks to school with boys from our small estate - they're not in his tutor group and he doesn't socialise with them on breaks. He spends breaks with his friends from primary school who went up with him - along with others he's now become friends with. It's taken time though!

I absolutely forbid him from being mean spirited- which I know sounds mad! He's a kind hearted boy but he's not immune to the odd bit of gossip which I jump on immediately if I ever hear him having a little gossip about a mutual friend. If I was to read a message from my son to someone admitting they've been mean etc, I would hit the roof with him. Are you in touch with these girl's parents at all? Having said that though, they're 12/13 and it's so tricky for Mum to wade in here. But don't immediately discount speaking to the parents, I'd want to know of my child was doing this

Try and insist on a tutor group swap if your daughter is on board with this. Is there another smaller school you could consider? Apart from that, I think it's about mulling over extra curricular activities that expand her horizons a bit. Is she a gamer? Pen pals? Woodland folk? A girls football team? Different scouts group - or what about the girl guides?

You have my sympathies. I know it's like walking around with your heart in your mouth sometimes. Provide plenty of non fussy support at home, be pro active and practical, and it'll blow over in time

This thread is making me feel so much better about DD. Very similar and struggling with the transition to Y7. In the past she's had some close girl friends but they tend to dwindle and she drifts back to the group of boys she's known since reception. Trouble is now they're 11/12 I think the boys (very fairly) want more boy time which she's struggling with. Converse mine sounds very like yours!

It's so hard as we naturally want them to feel like they fit in (whilst celebrating they don't follow the crowd) but they need to do the leg work themselves In the meantime it breaks your heart they're so unhappy ... please don't judge me but I feel so jealous of kids who are thriving with friendships, busy with clubs, sleepovers and parties. I just want a little bit of that for her.

OP I also think it's worth talking to school again for more support.

Would like to add, those of you whose kids have come out the other side, I'm really happy for you. It gives me a hope things can get better

Caulk I may try that route too, that's helpful to know. Redsky you make an interesting point about the girls in the class ... we've similar and DH has been telling her to keep plugging away but I'm starting to think like you ... remain polite, friendly but stop flogging a dead horse as actually it can just feed into her feeling she's not good enough. Move on and focus the energy elsewhere.

Anyway ... I'm hogging the conversation so I'm going to shut up for a bit

Thank you so much for all your support and advice, this really is Mumsnet at its best!

For the first step we are seeing tutor tomorrow after school, together. She will help with some strategies.

DD seems to have had a more positive day today, especially as the girl who sent the text over Christmas apologising for her behaviour was nice to her and the particularly awful one spoke to her and didn't criticise her. It may have been a one off as she was on a residential trip last week but we will see.

I am sorry so many of you are experiencing these things. Why are children so mean?

She'll continue to do scouts but I might speak to the leader to both warn him and also in case he has some good team building / anti bullying ideas. She has a winter camp coming up so maybe that might help (or make it worse).
She'll carry on with her sport too and her music lessons (shared with a primary school friend)
She's seeing her friend that moved away for a sleepover this weekend.
There's also lots of exciting things on the horizon for her (first festival in the summer, first o2 Wembley gig (Xmas present), going to see a show in the west end (with me and my best friend) and the boy in year 7 has invited her to Harry Potter world at Easter. So she's surrounded by some utterly amazing experiences in amongst all this crap.

She is relatively resilient and amazingly positive really. Nevertheless I could murder those girls, whoever spoke about power trips is right!

Also @tellmewhenthespaceshiplandscoz please chat away on thread. Nice to have each other's support.

I will report back on the tutor's response just so we can share what helps (or doesn't) our children.

You've had great advice. I was in a similar situation at school but completely internalised it and kept it silent (as I was afraid they were right and I was to be avoided) so it's great she's talking to you so openly. If I could rewind time what I would have really needed was an a parent on my side who would have listened to me and would have been resilient enough to keep reinforcing to me that I was ok, regardless of what was going on at school. If you can keep that role up, then you are helping her enormously in my opinion.

this sounds v familiar from my school days. it was tough for a long time, I chatted with girls in lessons who weren't in my tutor group and eventually made a good friendship group. I would spend all lunch with them rushing back foe registration. they eventually moved me to the same tutor group in yr 10

I think Y8 is known for being a bit strange socially. Everyone doing their best in Y7 but different power dynamics in Y8. I have found things to be more relaxed in Y9. Please do let her know that this is about them and not her, easy to say I know and a high eyebrow raising factor from a mother but it will sink in at some level. We often discuss that kind of behaviour in an anthropological(ish) way. Does she know she has a fan base on Mumsnet?

I agree, in my experience with dd year 8 was an awful year. Not enough to do...its not new and there is not the year 9 thoughts of the future.

The conversation with mine was about power and the sadness that people wanted to focus on power dynamics rather than amassing the skills they need for the future (in simpler language than that). How sad that the pinnacle of your life could be being top dog at school.

My dd is in year 13 now, just done amazingly well in her mocks. She looks back now and thinks it made her more resilient and kinder to others having a hard time.

This could have been me. I had interests outside the norm and liked different music etc. My mum spoke to the school and they tried to force people in my form to be friendly to me but it just made everything worse as they resented it even more. What I should have done was get them to change my form as I got on with other boys and girls in the school and could have made friendships there. Weirdly the super popular kids liked me and when I left, wrote some lovely things in my leavers book. College was much better for me as I met lots of different people and found my tribe.

So I would suggest a form move, give her a new group. I did find that if you weren't into the popular stuff that age group does tend to think you're weird. I remember being asked if I preferred Blur or Oasis and when I said neither, they all called me sad and weird.

I hope things improve.

Thank you so much for all your stories. You have given me hope, sorry not to name you individually but I've read every post and am grateful for all the advice.

Had an interesting chat with her tonight about her library friend. "They don't like her mum because she's a bit crazy which is exactly why I like her. She's just trying to think like a 12 year old whereas they're all trying to be 15."
Wise words!
Less wise words were 'but they are my friends as they're nice sometimes'. To which I said 'good friendships involve being nice all the time even if we do have the odd disagreement'.

@BarbedBloom that is it. They tend to think she's odd because she doesn't like rap music like everyone else. She's obsessed with billie eilish which is who I'm taking her to see at Wembley. On the WhatsApp tutor group at Christmas when she said that's what her present was some of them were so rude (she makes my ears hurt etc etc). Fortunately apologetic girl stood up for her and said if you can't say anything nice don't say it at all. But honestly, where's the respect for differing opinions?!

insanepizza that just shows how irrational the whole popularity thing is! In another school (or even just another form) it is just as likely to be Billie Eilish who is cool (if she's popular enough to sell out Wembley!), and rap music a bit weird. Just in case that helps dd because it's not her that's weird! Usually in a group you find one or two strong characters and the rest sort of follow them - if the leader was more into rock or whatever I bet you'd find the majority would then decide that was cool.

For what it's worth it doesn't sound like your daughter actually has any issue making friends - it's quite impressive that she's managed to make relationships (even if their not as close as she hopes they might be) with all these different people, such as the younger boy, library friend, girls she walks to school with etc. based on different interests - whereas the other girls have just stuck with the first girls they happened to be shoved together with in a tutor group.

I would imagine the classes will get mixed around quite a bit in Year 9 once they all pick their options anyway, so hopefully that is something to look forward to? Although I agree ideally if she could just swap tutor groups now it might be better.

The only other advice I would give would be for her to drop into conversation some of the (amazing!) plans she has just generally talking - the tutor group girls might roll their eyes at HP world or the festival but there will probably be quite a few others who will think they are really cool and start chatting with her about them.

Also maybe draw a comparison with yourself/DH - explain that you aren't necessarily BFFs with your work colleagues, just because you happen to be thrown together in an environment doesn't mean they are the people you have to get on best with - you can be polite to them and have a laugh, but your closest friends can be the people you like most/have more in common with, as she has with her old friend who moved away/library friend/Yr 7 boy/scouts etc.

@Theworldisfullofgs it’s very sad isn’t it to hear that’s what they strive for and not their edcaution,
Glad to hear your DD has had a better day today op and she is still open talking about all this with you, My DD and almost all her year of girls love Billie Eilish she is one of the in things and has been for about 2 2and half years