Will - what would you do?

[WeHaveSnowdrops]

A friend popped in this morning for a cuppa and to get away from bickering with her DH.

They both agree they need to write new wills but can't agree on what to do.

They have 2 DS's both in their 40s, unmarried but in long term committed relationships, living with their GFs. Elder DS has 2 DCs. Younger one has none and unlikely to have any.

Both have good jobs and mortgages. The GF with children is mostly a SAHM for now but does a couple of weekend shifts as a nurse to keep her hand in, she expects to return to full time work.

The other GF tried to run her own business but it failed several years ago. Since then she hasn't looked for any work or to work for herself again. DS earns enough to keep them both but no luxuries, like holidays abroad.

Friend's DH says they have 2 choices.

1. Half the estate to each son
2. Estate divided into 4. One quarter to each son and a quarter each to the grandchildren.

She favours (1) her DH favours (2)

He doesn't much like the non-working GF, who has never been friendly or welcoming, and he doesn't want her to enjoy the fruits of his labour while "lazing around for most of her life". Both DSs were given substantial sums for deposits for their homes.

Friend's DH wants the GCs to benefit and is considering option 3 which is even split between the DGCs. Leaving out both DS's.

I can see his point but I think a straight split between the two is the only fair way. Friends are fit and healthy and in their 70s so feel the need to have their wills sorted.

Crikey - in their 70s and they're only just getting round to wills?!

Even split between dcs every time for me. It's the only way. There's no way of knowing how people's lives may have changed by the time a will is invoked. Wealthy dcs may have lost their jobs and be on their uppers; nice/not nice partners may change etc etc. If one dc receives more then there is also the risk of the other dc thinking their parents didn't love them as much.

And I would never ever skip to grandchildren. My PILs talked regularly of doing this and it has filled me with horror that my dcs might come into money in their late teens/early 20s and burn through it (perhaps at the expense of education/career) and then not have it later when really needed for mortgages/families etc.

Just realised you said 'new will' so at least they do have something in place!

It’s not for the partner/girlfriend it’s for their sons? Then they can decide how to use it for their family/lifestyle.
But I’d spend it and tell them to earn their own money tbh. I wouldn’t care if I got a dime of my mother, I’d rather she enjoyed her life now and did the things she’s always wanted to then save it for me!. She’s only 65 wills done and power of attorney sorted about 5 years ago. But hopefully they’re happily spending it all. Funerals however have been paid for/money set aside and wishes passed on to myself and sister

The only thing I would consider is a nominal amount for the grandchildren so they know their grandparents were thinking of them. That'll depend on the size of the estate, of course, but maybe a couple of grand each, on their 21st birthday, something like that.

Otherwise split between the 2 children. The decision shouldn't be down to what their current circumstances are, or try to second-guess their future situations. Just split it down the middle and know there's no prospect of a future falling-out between their children. Who would want that as a legacy?

I didn't get anything from my grandparents will it went straight to children not grandchildren which I agree with, but I don't mind the PP saying giving a small nominal amount to the grandchildren.

I like the suggestion of a lump sum for each GC. Maybe enough for a car or to help with university.

I'll pass that on to my friend. Her DH might go for that especially if they make provisions in case other DS has children eventually.

A small bequest to each grandchild (and any other person / organisation of their choosing) and the rest divided equally between the two sons.

Do they really want to cause trouble and lifelong resentment between the two of them ? I don't think the DH has applied his brain on this one.

Option 4: Mirror wills where spouse inherits it all and accept reality that most of the estate will be eaten up with care home fees.

They are then only arguing about what it left over after they have both died and paid up the care home. Does it look like that much money now?

They need to be realistic and accept that their first duty is to each other as paying for care is expensive and what might look like a large estate- a house plus savings, will look like a lot less of an estate after it's paid for a year or more of care home fees, and probably home care before then.

It might be very small bequests split between 2 or 4 after that.

Depends on the age of GC doesn’t it? My DM asked DGP to split her share between DSIS and me and it was a very very welcome house deposit in our early 30s for both of us (but not enough to change DM’s life at that stage). Avoids a round of inheritance tax too, potentially.

In answer to your comment about making provision for future gchildren - they just word the will something along the lines that ' All surviving grandchildren are left.....XXXX' That way they don't have to update the will once the GC come along.

I actually like the idea of leaving a decent amount to the GC and less to the sons. As adults live longer it's less likely that children will benefit from any estate their parents leave at a time it would really help. Having a nest egg from the GP to help with a house deposit or University loans is lovely.

One set of my grandparents split their will three ways - between their two children and the only grandchild. I'm the grandchild and it made me feel pretty awkward, tbh. Me and my parents are comfortable. My uncle less so. It would have been fairer to leave it 50/50 between the two children in my view. However, they were very clear in their wishes and it wouldn't have felt right to go against them. In any event my uncle has never bothered with me so I don't feel obligated to subsidise him.

Thanks for all the suggestions. It's made DH and I have a discussion as well.

I'll pop round and see friend later. Her DH is usually a reasonable man and I think he will compromise.

I really would caution against giving young people anything more than a token amount of money. It doesn't take much to knock young adults off the path of working hard to get good qualifications and develop a good career. Far better to give it to them when they most need it for something specific (flat deposit, car etc).

I speak from experience and having PILs who think they know best.

Would a slightly fairer way be to give 30/35/40% each to the 2 DSs, and then the remaining 40/30/20% split evening between the 2 DGSs?

They cold always decide to leave a significant amount to another person or cause altogether that is close to their heart, and avoid a lot of this.

They should possibly also consider leaving everything to each other in the first instance, and that when BOTH are gone, it is further divided up between the DSs and DGSs. Or at least making sure that the person who dies later is not forced to sell their home so that the half due to the first to die is split however they intended between their offspring.

If they decided to each leave everything to each other in the first instance, then it could be done that each of them leaves the entire remaining estate as THEY see fit amongst the offspring in due course - so if DH lives longer, DGSs get a significant proportion, whereas if DW lives longer, a larger proportion goes to the DSs, IYSWIM - and each can have their own way.

What about compromising with 1/3 to each son and 1/3 to be shared between any grandchildren (just in case another comes along).
Seems a bit mean to deprive the son of anything just so his lazy wife doesn't get any though! Maybe there are things about the relationship or her health that they aren't aware of. Although a conversation about it would probably not go down well. "Any reason you're wife's so lazy" "none of your business, why?" "Because we're cutting you out of our will so she doesn't get any of our money, lazy bitch"...

Like several PPs have said, even split between DC, with the possibility of a very nominal amount for all surviving GC, is the easiest and fairest choice. To do anything else starts involving value judgements about who deserves it more, who needs it more, who can be best trusted with etc etc and is an absolute minefield which is almost certain to cause bad feeling.

My caveat to that would be if one DC made significantly more sacrifices to provide care to the ageing parents, in which case that should absolutely be recognised somehow (and I'm shocked that more people don't do this). That doesn't seem to be a factor in the OP's friends' current situation.

Like other PPs have commented, once care fees are paid for this may all be an irrelevance anyway.

Option 1 (splitting equally between the children) would be best IMO.

The sons may yet have more children so if they do leave a share to the grandkids they need to be sure it says grandchildren, not 'Tom' and 'Jerry'.
However I believe a split between the two brothers is fairest, with as suggested perhap a separate cash amount to any grandkids.
My parents made it clear that they were dividing the estate equally between the kids regardless of current financial position or grandchildren. I have two kids, a sibling has none and another a disabled child who will never live independently. My childless sibling is leaving all her money to the disabled niece and we are all happy about that, as we were about our parents will.

I think its fair to split it equally between the 2 sons then its up to them to share with the dcs. This is what mil is doing with dh and sil but she stated she would like dh to give some money to the dcs

Her DH has seen sense!

They are going to do mirror wills with everything going to the other one but are writing in that the estate is to be divided evenly between the sons after their deaths. Also a bequest for "any living grandchildren".

Her DH is a belt and braces type of chap so he's going to look at a way to make sure the money stays with the blood so if childless DS dies his share goes to his brother and children. I don't see that would be too hard.

Although a fixed amount may mean that the amount the children get is quite small. If for example the current value of the estate is £300k and you leave 10k to each grandchild and the remainder to be split. If 270K went on care fees the children would only get 5k each. A percentage might be fairer.

If she dies first, what's to stop her husband changing his will to split it 4 ways like he originally wanted to do ?

I don't think he'd do that out of respect for her. They are a lovely, usually happy, couple.

Who cares what's fair, I know someone who left everything to DGCs only, what left one of their DCs with nothing as their DC died when young (before the benefactor).
Was probably intended as the incentive to breed which sadly didn't work.

But of course once the benefactor is dead, no one is going to go back to argue with them.

20% split equally between any grandcgildren as they turn 18. 40% to each dear son.