How to help dd with her dad

[ElfDragon]

DC’s dad and I are divorced. Mostly all gone well enough, but dd is struggling with her relationship with her dad.

I have tried to be non-committal, and have tried not to get involved, but it is constant, and I don’t know what to do for the best.

Dd is very critical of her dad. Occasionally unfairly, but overall about stuff that is happening all the time and she feels that her views are ignored. Seemingly small stuff, like daily routines (not having the toothpaste she likes, but going out of his way to make sure he has the toothpaste ds likes; same for various foods; not knowing/caring which clothes belong to which child when they come out of the wash so putting the wrong clothes in each child’s room) as well as bigger stuff like she feels her dad spends more time and effort with her brother than he does with her.

Christmas hasn’t helped this at all. Dd feels as though everything she asked for was changed or downgraded whilst everything ds wanted was for exactly as is (eg dd wanted a particular brand of clothing, asked for as a present as she knows it’s expensive, and that wasn’t bought for her but a cheaper item was instead. Ds’ presents (not clothing) weren’t substituted in the same way.) The crunch point came when her grandparents sent presents down which weren’t of much use to the dc (sounds harsh, but it was jewellery items which the dc will probably never use) and exH decided that he would buy a substitute present for ds (“because he probably won’t ever use that”) and not for dd. Dd even brought it up with him, and exH was adamant that he had done nothing wrong.

How am I supposed to help dd with her feelings about all this without basically saying ‘yes, your dad is being a massive twat’. I try hard not to bad mouth him, but if I don’t in situations like that, it feels as though I am gaslighting her instead if I try to (somehow!) find a semi-rational reason for the differences in how they are treated.

She talked to me a few days ago about how he never apologises or takes responsibility for anything - the most she gets is ‘I’m sorry you feel that way’

So, how do I help her find her way through all this? She does love him, but doesn’t like him very much at the moment I don’t think, and I’m finding it very hard to support her neutrally, when the examples she comes up with are so blatant that it’s difficult to not just say ‘well clearly he’s just being an idiot’

For God's sake, it's not bad mouthing to be clear and honest with her rather than fucking with her head by minimising and excusing the shitty way she's being treated. She needs accurate information from the adults in her life. You owe her that much even if you can't stop the shitty way her father is treating her.

The things distressing her are legitimate things to be upset over, because she's being treated badly. What she needs is for the adults in her life to say to her "this is wrong, you do not deserve this, it shouldn't be happening and I'm very sorry it is".

Or do you want her to grow up blaming herself, thinking this is normal/acceptable and then eventually becoming angry and hurt that none of the adults who were supposed to love and protect her could be bothered to even be honest about it much less act?

How am I supposed to help dd with her feelings about all this without basically saying ‘yes, your dad is being a massive twat’.

Errr why? He's behaving like a twat, she knows it, you know it. Why are you tiptoeing around that? You're effectively gaslighting her. Agree with her ffs.

Thank you.

It may sound ridiculous, but I needed to hear that.

ExH is emotionally manipulative and it is really hard to put aside how I feel about him.

I try to keep a balance. I do often tell her that things are wrong, and that he shouldnt behave the way he does, and then I find myself questioning this, and wondering whether I should be telling her that.

I can’t change the way he treats the dc, and I am very open about that with her. She often chooses not to spend contact time with him, and that is ok too. I won’t make her go, and try to support her going if she chooses to go.

ExH has already threatened me with court to try to make the dc go, and wouldn’t hesitate to do so again (and claim parental alienation on my part - he has also hinted at this) if he thought I was ‘badmouthing’ him.

Why are you not fucking going to bat for your child?

She talked to me a few days ago about how he never apologises or takes responsibility for anything - the most she gets is ‘I’m sorry you feel that way’

Would you let her apologise that way? Would you let her treat others the way she's treated? So why the fuck are you not telling her it's just as wrong for it to be done to her?

Why are you telling her this mistreatment is a sign of love when you know full well it's not?

You might as well hand her over to her future abusive husband now.

Your bullshit "neutral" stance is cowardly and failing your daughter. It doesn't help her, it just makes your life easier.

You owe her an apology because you have been seriously failing her. And then you need to shape up and stop collaborating with her mistreatment and stop fucking with her head.

He's controlling you with his court threats in order to exacerbate the harm he is inflicting on your daughter and undermine the attempts you make to protect her.

Please do the Freedom Programme course. Even if you only do the section on the impact on children and how to support them. Www.freedomprogramme.co.uk

It just feels, I suppose, that there isn’t really ever a pint where I can say ‘actually, he’s doing it for the right reasons’

I know he’s a twat.

I know he’s not treating any of the dc well (even by spoiling ds he’s driving a wedge between siblings) or doing any of them any favours.

But I also know that the more I say it, the harder it is for them to hear. He is their father. They do love him. Life isn’t always black and white where emotions come into it.

They are not mature enough to deal with that conflict.

I suppose I am asking whether there is a kinder way to help them realise their dad is a twat (and I know the answer to that too).

You’re allowed to agree with her. Is there a decent age gap between dc’s though? Not that it justifies it but I know as I got older presents got progressively crapper or easily substituted (I want this black coat from topshop but instead I got a similar black coat from primark to an adult they look pretty much the same) whereas younger family members still got the toys they’d asked for.. and more of them.

And other weird things like younger family members getting a present on my birthday.. I didn’t get on theirs but I was old enough not to have a tantrum at not getting.

Jewellery might be a “for girls” thing to his head too...

Fuck knows, but you can call a twat a twat.

How old are they?

I do agree with her.

On the substituted present thing - not really. He told her what she wanted was too expensive, and bought a cheaper item. Which would have been fine if he hadn’t then spent about the same amount as the expensive brand on ds.

He has now backtracked on the grandparents present thing - ds brought it up when I was dropping dd off and so we were talking about it, and I pointed out that dd was just as unlikely to just her present from grandparents as ds was, so hardly fair that he got an extra present to ‘make up’ and she didn’t. ExH reluctantly agreed and said he would get something else for dd too - time will tell.

There is a reasonable age gap, but not sure that’s a determining factor. I think sadly that sex has more to do with it - ds will always be golden boy, and there’s not much dd can do about that. (I have talked that through with her too).

Firstly what age are the DC?
You say they aren’t mature enough to deal with conflict, your DD seems more mature than you; she can see her dad for the shit he is and her mother is minimising it and basically continuing the girls need to be quiet and accepting cycle. Have your daughters back, defend her and stand up to your twat of an ex.
Do not allow him to treat your child like this.

Oh, and about the apology style thing.

No, I wouldn’t let her apologise like that, and we had a long talk about it, which turned into a bit of a rant on my part, where I told her that sorry is never followed by a ‘bit’ (so no half apology followed by an excuse) and if you only apologise for the other person (sorry you feel that way) then you’re not actually apologising at all.

It was after that rant that I once again wondered whether I sometimes go too far in telling her when he is doing something wrong, as it just seemed to have been quite a long list of stuff she wanted to talk through, and then I went off on one about how he (didn’t) apologise as well.

Right, lots of crossed posts and have just read the thread through.

I haven’t ever said I don’t support dd. I do, and do tell her when her dad is behaving badly.

I am conscious, though, that there is very little good that I can say about him, and I don’t want to fall into the obvious ‘but he loves you’ crap. It isn’t what I want dd to grow up believing - that someone can treat you awfully as long as they love you.

On the face of it, he is (from society’s point of view) a ‘good’ dad. He pays maintenance (as he should), we have a decent place to live, and a good standard of living.

The dc’s are 13and 6. So dd is old enough to notice a lot more of the ‘parenting’ stuff and ds is too young to work out that what exH is doing is damaging.

Is the favouritism mainly because the 6 year old still hero worships Dad and he laps it up...

Yes, I think so. Ds is young enough to be uncritical and love all the attention and Disney dad aspects of spending time there, and so exH plays up to that hugely - has the added bonus of making dd jealous, and is a huge ‘see what could happen for you if you behave how I want you to’ red flag. I have also talked to dd about this and she recognises it for what it is, but that doesn’t make it any easier for her to deal with.

I guess you just continue to support her in whether she wishes to spend time with him or not...